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[Mrs H]

I'm not quite clear what you two are rubbishing
Is it that:
You don't think Urban racing is a valid form of orienteering.
You don't think it's a good way to get people into the sport.
You don't see the problem of having 30 or so people guarding the controls.

All people are doing here is bouncing some ideas around, where are yours?

[Oldman]

I'm not quite clear what you two are rubbishing
Is it that:
You don't think Urban racing is a valid form of orienteering.
You don't think it's a good way to get people into the sport.
You don't see the problem of having 30 or so people guarding the controls.

All people are doing here is bouncing some ideas around, where are yours?

I totally agree with you for once, Mrs H. A good thread introduced with some thought and developed sensibly. If readers are too petty to spot the potential benefits and the value of discussing blue sky ideas, then they should go elsewere and leave the farsighted ones to make progress.

[Becks]

I think the discussion is this thread places far too much faith in people! When we used to put out kites and pin punches they still got stolen in populated areas. Not for the fact they were expensive, just because they were there and they were useful for these crazy people in lycra. The club didn't make a huge loss from this, but nonetheless it ruined the runs of whoever was unlucky enough to arrive at the sites once they'd gone. Whether the controls are tesco bags, barcodes or the usual SI units, they will still get nicked in urban areas if people see them as interesting and useful for other people. Hence the need for the small army of volunteers. If the quality of the race for all those taking part is the most important factor, then they need to be guarded. Simple as that. In which case the system we have now is perfectly sufficient.

[Oldman]

I find it sad that someone can be so dismissive of others efforts to seek solutions, and just says "I know best, it can't be done".

[Wayward-O]

Well, if a 'minder' is needed for all controls in an urban event, then the answer is simple. Make the 'minders' the controls by giving each an orange and white bib and a book of raffle tickets. The winner of the event is the person who completes the course in the fastest time and collects a raffle ticket from each book.

Afterwards, there could be a draw using the stubs from the ticket books.

[Kitch]

Agree with Becks
its not the technology thats the issue its the fact that it is nickable and therefore (in the eyes of some) to-be nicked.

the solution is something discrete, robust and secure-able.
why not think what can be done with the current tools before re-inventing the wheel ?

discrete
Emit and SI units are both "interesting" they could be made a bit less interesting - a bit less red - a bit less bright. Emit (if you lose the socket and pin ) could just be a solid block of cacky green scratched up plastic - SI possibly the same.

alternatively - hide the unit inside a coke can or a chip box !

robust
Emit units strike me as robust there is nothing much to break. Si probably a bit less so.

securable
At rat races SI units are secured with steel cable - no flag. trouble is that a steel cable doesn't help with discrete - anything worth nailing down is worth nicking after all.

Couldn't heavy duty SI / Emit - urban grunge style units with heavy duty locking rings be produced ?
Units that were inconspicuous to the passer by,
but if spotted - hard to remove unless tooled up with bolt cutters and resitant to the attentions of a hard swung piece of wood or metal.

[andy]

Controls can still be moved with minders in place - happened at Scottish Sprint champs

[Mrs H]

If, as has been said, anything we put out no matter how inconsequential, will attract unwanted attention from the spoilers then we have to take another approach - one that very possibly takes us well away from existing systems.

Instead of putting out controls we need to use immutable things which are already there as controls. ( i can hear people groaning "treasure hunt" from here but i think that just shows a lack of imagination to be honest)

Taken at its most basic form my club runs a series of night street races - no controls are put out. people are issued with control descriptions which are also their controls cards. The controls are identifiable features like lamp posts, hydrant and services markers, sign posts etc etc - these already have identification codes on, some of which will be on the description - the rest have to be filled in by the competitor (with a pen). Crude but effective.

I am sure someone out there is bright enough to come up with a hi tech version of recording the relevant information - we also need a whole new raft of control descriptions to cater for urban features.

[Becks]

I guess then you just take away a lot of the planner's ability to place to control in an exact position, which has been really crucial in sprint racing over the past few years.

[Scott]

But from what I've seen, quite a lot of the current control placement in urban sprints is (at least in part) determined by whether there's a convenient lamppost/drainpipe/railing to secure the control unit to anyway.

[Scott]

Personally, though, I'd have thought it was better to put pinpunches out than to have people noting down lamppost codes and the like - they're cheap, inconspicuous, pretty hard to destroy and can be attached fairly securely to bits of street furniture (QO have a particularly tough attachment system (the design of which I've forgotten) that OUOC borrowed for a street event a couple of months ago).

[SeanC]

Writing down fire hydrant numbers etc is I think in farely common use for informal street score events such as the ones in the Kent Night Cup series. It's fine for a low key 60 minute score, but the time taken to pull out the pen, work out the answer etc means that you stop running for a fair old time. I have no problem with that but the keener and fitter runners on the short city races might not be too happy with their flow disrupted.

I've no empirical evidence to prove this, but when we used controls with pin punches (in south east London woods) they seemed to go missing as often, or more often than now we're using electronic punching. I have a theory that they are mainly taken by kids "having a laugh", and these kids are less likely to steal something expensive looking than something cheap looking, perhaps because they might think they would get in more trouble for stealing something expensive.

Dare I say it, but can EMIT come to the rescue? What's the range on EMIT units? With some special gadget, would it be possible to stick the control and/or emit unit up high away from naughty kids, but near enough to register on competitor's bricks?

[andy]

Dare I say it, but can EMIT come to the rescue? What's the range on EMIT units? With some special gadget, would it be possible to stick the control and/or emit unit up high away from naughty kids, but near enough to register on competitor's bricks?

I can see all the planners clambering into a DIY store as we speak to buy their step ladders!

[Mrs H]

Writing down fire hydrant numbers etc is... fine for a low key 60 minute score, but the time taken to pull out the pen, work out the answer etc means that you stop running for a fair old time.

OBVIOUSLY
which is why we need to come up with a hi tech version You're all stuck on existing systems - don't keep thinking along the same old lines - think sideways!

[Neil M40]

Make the control unit look like one of them cigarette stubber/bin things. Make the SI Card look like a cigarette.

Kids see runner in lycra zoom past, stub his cigarette out and run off. There's nothing unusual going on so the kids take no interest.

The only trouble with this is having to empty the real cigarette butts out from all the real smokers.

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