Entry Fee breakdown

[Wattok]

Could someone briefly explain to me what money goes where if, for example, an O4S event entry was was £12 for non-BOF members?

£2 off if BOF members
£?? to BOF on levies
??p per map for printing
etc?

Cheers

[graeme]

I guess if would depend on how many entries you had. Supposing you were naive enough only to market the event to the elite, perhaps with a nearby event on the same day for punters. Then you might only expect 40 entries, all-BOF, maybe 50% juniors and students.

In which case your question becomes, "what sort of event can you stage for £300 ?".
A good quality new map might well cost the lot... Prizes? ...dont hold your breath.

Graeme

PS While you're at it, ask yourself why it costs a travelodge over ten times that much to put me up for two nights...

[roadrunner]

Graeme's right that mapping costs will probably be the biggest factor - a professional survey would probably be over £1000, even with 300 runners that's around £3 each. Add on to that any land access fees (not cheap in the South of England anyway) and toilet hire, and the money soon goes. Nevertheless, £12 does sound a bit high for a Level 4 event.

[Big Jon]

seems to me some clubs want to write off the cost of mapping on the first use of a map - rather than designating it as a separate cost that will be recouped over several events and perhaps several years. My own club doesn't look at mapping costs when considering entry fees as most of our events are on existing maps so we try to get one or two new areas every year and the cost of these is borne by ALL of our events. We certainly don't regard each event as a separate profit/loss centre, as long as we are covering our costs by year end we are happy.

[graeme]

Sensible view Jon. But I wonder if it still applies when a club is asked to put on an event by someone else (BOF/6-day), rather than deciding itself. For example, did BOC2008 cover its mapping costs?

Graeme

[mikey]

I guess this thread refers to the sprint race at Shrewsbury, which at £10/12 for 3k does sound pretty expensive. But I assume that the organisers are having to factor in a small entry (especially with 9 am start, limited publicity, a middle race on same day and a BOF training day nearby!), new map with possibly limited after-use and (hopefully) the need to provide a high quality race that fits the occasion.

I would be very surprised if the organisers are going to make a profit on this event, even with these entry fees.

[candyman]

In the Australian Capital Territory almost all the 'quality' bush/forest events (on quality maps with quality course setting) are run at a loss. However to offset this the ACT Orienteering Association runs a series of high participation events on park and city maps which makes a very healthy profit.

So by running a well organised series of events catering to beginners and newer orienteers who don't want to travel long distances and like the social aspect of having a combined start/finish/assembly area ACTOA makes enough profit that they can have new and interesting areas mapped for those orienteers who are willing to travel further for more challenging terrain.

Interestingly despite several increases in entry fees for the beginner/inner city events the numbers have continued to increase as participants are given a good product and the events are well promoted locally and well run.

[SeanC]

We have a mechanism for redistribution of entry fees from well attended to not so well attended events - the levy system.

However the levies are relatively small so the effect is minimal. With a larger levy BOF could give out more grants to subsidise specific events, projects or peripheral parts of the country if that is what the members want.

[roadrunner]

With the present competition structure, competitors will pay more for a C3 event than a C4 one, and more will come (at least here in the South), so it would be natural to re-map an area before putting on a C3 event, and recoup most of the cost from that - which is essentially what my club does. Forests around here also change quite a bit from year to year, due to forestry and conservation work, and with the accuracy that we've come to expect from pre-printed maps, we would be lucky to get two C3 events on an area without re-mapping.

[Nimby]

I just happen to have the figures for our club's last C3 event. Here's where the income from 424 entries went (I've rounded the numbers so they don't add to 100% exactly)
Toilets: 14%
Region levy: 2%
BOF levy: 23%
Officials' expenses: 5%
epunching: 20%
Red Cross: 5%
Map printing: 14%
Land access: 4%
Profit: 16%

The Army covered survey costs.

[Mrs H]

What is the break down of the 20% epunching cost - are you hiring in equipment or righting off expenditure or something - it just seems rather a lot.

[Nimby]

The total income figure includes the £1 card hire which goes back to EMIT, plus 40p per person for managing everything. We don't own any epunching kit, PCs or gennies.

I also just noticed we reimbursed a stolen control; so normally the % would be lower.

[Ravinous]

I fear SeanC lives in an ideal world. I am not sure the levy that BOF takes is used to offset loss making events. (The same way that his Dartford Crossing Toll isnt spent on improving the road network). If an event makes a loss, does it not still have to pay levy? I cant remember who it was exactly I was talking to - it was a key organiser at BOC I think - who said that BOF were going to take their Super BOF/JK Levy Tax (which I think is a flat 4k (or maybe 6k?)) that is applied to BOC/JK even if the event made a loss. Luckily I think it generated the money needed to create this large profit to pay BOF what it asks for, even though the wo/man hours for the event, the financial risk and the organisational burdens are borne by the local/organising club(s)/region.
It is a stark contrast to some other sports whose National /International Federations pay, yes thats right, the clubs get paid to organise Championships, and with it comes a team of experts who also have kit/equipment/expertise, who help the local clubs(s) on the ground to run the event. How many people in BOF have actually put on an event?
It would be interesting to know what the 4k Super Levy gets spent on and I doubt it is spent on loss making events as I said at the start. Rather than it being absorbed into the big BOF bank account to be spent on ?????, should we not be building up a bank of SI or EMIT equipment and flags, etc. At this years BOC, I understand that the EMIT stuff had to be pooled from at least 3 clubs in Scotland. Of course some of the units had the same numbers and some poor chap (name forgotten) spent literally days, getting it all sorted so we could have an event with 250 controls or whatever it was they needed.
It makes me wonder - is BOF working for us or are we working for BOF?

[greywolf]

At this years BOC, I understand that the EMIT stuff had to be pooled from at least 3 clubs in Scotland. Of course some of the units had the same numbers and some poor chap (name forgotten) spent literally days, getting it all sorted

I think BOC used EMIT kit from Moravian, BASOC, MAROC, GRAMP and Invoc. For some reason IIRC the NOC kit wasn't acceptable. Chris Spencer (Moravian) did the sorting, and refreshed the numbers where necessary, as well as planning the non-TD5 courses.

Anyone not running fast enough would've noticed half a dozen different unit designs, each with a different way of tying on the flag Standard BOF kit would be great, though I can guess what the next argument would be.....

[andy]

At this years BOC, I understand that the EMIT stuff had to be pooled from at least 3 clubs in Scotland.

Of course if they had used the Scottish 6 days SI kit, which is available to all Scottish clubs, they wouldn't have had this problem.

This system works wonders in Scotland thanks to SIman who admins it. Just a shame some clubs choose to use a different system and give themselves more work in the process.