Scottish Champs

[EddieH]

It matters not a jot what the prizes are, but get the teams up there. For many individuals it may be their only chance of glory ever.

[frog]

I'd like relay prizes for the handicap teams. Should be easier than doing prizes for all winners in the individual day as fewer categories. Small things like bags of sweets would do.

[awk]

It matters not a jot what the prizes are, but get the teams up there. For many individuals it may be their only chance of glory ever.

Yes!!!!

[Homer]

I like the principal behind the handicap classes in the Scottish Relays, but believe the course lengths/handicaps need a bit more work in order to make it fairer.

Has anyone looked at the results since the system has been in place to determine which level of handicap the winners are coming from? This year it was a 9 point team (average of 3 M45's). Has it ever been won with a predominantly female team?
I've calculated that for a 6 point team (3 M40's) to have won this year they would have had to average under 5.4mpk. The winning Men's Open team only manged 5.9mpk!

I'd prefer to see the same classes as at the JK (M/W120+ and M/W165+).

[EddieH]

The handicap system is brilliant as long as you take winning the particular class seriously and the overall winner with a pinch of salt - it NEVER can be fair as every year the planner, the area etc will be different.

One problem with the system is the name. I had to warn our publicist NOT to send the fact that we won a handicap class to the local paper. That gives completely the wrong impression as handicap implies an uneven contest. What we do call it is difficult - I could only come up with the words "their relay class".

Incidentally I am planning the event next year and have already been playing around with courses and gaffling.

[mikey]

Where is it next year?

[andy]

Where is it next year?

23rd SOA BASOC NATIONAL EVENT & Scottish Championships. Speyside/InvernessShire.
C2 Paul Caban.
Full registration pending

24th SOA BASOC Scottish Championships - Relays. Speyside/InvernessShire.
R4 Paul Caban.
Full registration pending

Speyside/InvernessShire I'd guess at

[mikey]

Where is it next year?

23rd SOA BASOC NATIONAL EVENT & Scottish Championships. Speyside/InvernessShire.
C2 Paul Caban.
Full registration pending

24th SOA BASOC Scottish Championships - Relays. Speyside/InvernessShire.
R4 Paul Caban.
Full registration pending

Speyside/InvernessShire I'd guess at

I was hoping for a bit more detail than that!

[greywolf]

I like the principal behind the handicap classes in the Scottish Relays, but believe the course lengths/handicaps need a bit more work in order to make it fairer.

Has anyone looked at the results since the system has been in place to determine which level of handicap the winners are coming from? This year it was a 9 point team (average of 3 M45's). Has it ever been won with a predominantly female team?
I've calculated that for a 6 point team (3 M40's) to have won this year they would have had to average under 5.4mpk. The winning Men's Open team only manged 5.9mpk!

I'd prefer to see the same classes as at the JK (M/W120+ and M/W165+).

The top two teams this year were both all male, 9 pointers - but the reason for their success was high quality runners not making mistakes. Not too far behind were 2 12 point teams and a 15-pointer, two of which included women, (one of whom "won" course D.)

It could be tweaked a bit - maybe sixpoint teams should run B-B-C and maybe the women's classes should get an extra point or two in the handicap, at the moment W18 = W40 = M50, which seems a bit optimistic

But IMHO going over to JK classes would be a very bad idea - the whole point of the handicap system is to get mixed teams racing against each other, and to give the little clubs a chance to compete with the big boys - as it happens our club "A" team comprises M55, M50 and M45, ideal for the Scottish relays, no chance at the JK

[EddieH]

Greywolf you are doing us down. It is at the British that we have no chance, but I think we could surprise a few at the JK.

[graeme]

Has anyone looked at the results since the system has been in place to determine which level of handicap the winners are coming from?

So I devised the scheme, and have monitored it closely. Essentially its down to the planner setting appropriate leg lengths to balance it out, all the winning times are meant to be the same for the mid-people in the class. Mins per km is misleading, as the slower people on the team are running less distance.

Who usually wins? All the classes have come "within errors" down the years. Since you need three people one would expect the winners to come from the classes with the strength in depth, which these days is M45/50. There are some pretty quick people in those classes, age-adjusted much stronger than the "elite", (e.g. 8th fastest on M45, was 8th fastest overall in the open relay...).

The winning times on the five groups were 86, 76 72 81 and 75, which doesnt look like any systematic bias to me. The planner did a good job of judging the course lengths (unlike, e.g. the 49-minute winning time M45L..).


The women don't seem to do as well as the men. I think there's now enough evidence that the balance should change, probably to M35 = 0 and then +1 per age group. But its not my call anymore.

[SIman]

It has taken a while, but Routegadget is now set up for the relays here.

[ryeland of doom]

Lack of commentary - I thought it was a deliberate policy and was very grateful. I enjoyed a peaceful Tullochroisk. It simply would not have been appropriate to introduce noise pollution into a place that beautiful.