BOK Trot

[Tatty]

A hot day, so many thanks to the planner/organiser/controller who arranged for an unplanned drinks point when we crossed the road. It was greatly appreciated

[Axel]

Yep, got to second that, the drink station was at a 2 minute timed road crossing point so you didn't lose time either, which more than likely encouraged everybody to take on fluids.

Excellent weather, well chosen assembly area and compact car park made for a bit more social chat with fellow Oer's than usual. Also near a garage that must have done it's best ever sales in ice lollies.

However I did feel sorry for the punters that entered on the day then had to take a blank map to the start, start the SI and then had to draw the course on the map, which made them pretty well non competitive straight away. I'm sure there has got to be a better way of doing this, any ideas out there?

On a good point my daughter wanted to run W21L but the course was fully loaded so had to enter JW5L, however a very thoughtful competitor emailed the organisers that he/she was no longer available to attend. Forward thinking BOK re-offered the course vacancy on their event website the night before the event and Julia contacted them and got her course changed. Looking at results in general from a number of recent events there always seem to be a number of DNS, no doubt in most cases because of circumstance beyond their control. Perhaps we should encourage these people to declare their non attendance so in the case of a fully subscribed class it gives the opportunity to a few more competitors to get a run in their chosen class.

Please no negative comments that its to much work for the organisers and the person should have entered early to ensure they got the right class course. As I said before circumstances change, as well as competitive having to cancel their entry there are always number of people that were preoccupied then become available to enter at a very late stage. Perhaps we should encourage punters to advertise their vcant start slots on this forum!!!

[mike g]

Good idea, and work for the organisers could be more or less eliminated if the online entries providers included a facility to transfer entries and enter the new person's details online. At least one road race (the St Neots half marathon) has that as a feature of its online entry system, and my running club, which uses the race as its club championship half marathon, finds it very convenient.

[greywolf]

Axel, I agree that it was very good of the organisers to advertise the vacancy & allow your daughter to take it up - and having looked at the results, she obviously justified it...but it seems a bit bizarre there were only 7 other competitors on the "fully booked" W21L. Presumably W21L shared the course with some of the popular mens courses (in the SOLs its M45L/M50L/M21S) but doesn't this arrangement suggest a possible scenario where all those dedicated M45/M50s take up all the available spaces and there's no space for any W21L competitors at all??

[Guest88]

Looks like BOK are doing a good job if they are allowing you to copy down the course and run, much better than not being able to run at all and ending up running a course you don't want to run. Maybe the next step is to charge the competitor an extra £2 or £3 (on top of the EOD extra), and have someone at the start copy down the map on their behalf prior to them starting.

Regarding the course being full - well it would appear to be always the same courses 3 and 4 that are full. Maybe the "intelligent" entries system could start dynamically start offering a new course 3.5 as soon as it realises that 3 and 4 are going to sell out (and dynamically plan a new course?).

[Roger]

Why should EOD cost extra, compared to late entries on-line? Once the maps are printed, surely it's better to sell them than not. It helps of course if the entry system can reflect the map-number limits by course.

I agree that there should be some penalty for burdening the on-the-day system, but the possibility of having to copy down your course (or being unable to run the course that you'd have liked) seems sufficient to me.

It's rare that courses are actually full, i.e. that there are no more start times available. More frequently, it's simply that the number of printed maps is exhausted. (Eee, I remember them days when we 'ad 150 runners on M21A. The course really were full then, with a runner every minute. None of this two-minute nonsense...)

[graeme]

Why should EOD cost extra, compared to late entries on-line?

Moral hazard.

[Guest88]

Why should EOD cost extra, compared to late entries on-line? Once the maps are printed, surely it's better to sell them than not. It helps of course if the entry system can reflect the map-number limits by course.

I may not have made it clear, but I was talking about the situation where all maps had been sold. If I then turned up late, it would be worth it to me to pay the extra £2-3 on top of the other fees (given that I have already paid out the petrol and time in getting there) to have a guarantee of a run. (in fact an economist might argue that it is worth at least the price of your time and petrol on top of the normal entry fee once you are in that situation)
Easy money for the event - overall take of £13 from me just for having someone at the start copy some controls onto a map. But BOK in my book are doing pretty well compared to some clubs where it would appear that once the maps have gone, you can't run at all.

[Mrs H]

just for having someone at the start copy some controls onto a map. .

Oooooo who'd be brave enough to do that job - supposing you got it wrong

[EddieH]

Quote "Why should EOD cost extra?"

Simply because it encourages peoplke to ener early and therefore the organisers know how many maps to print thus saving on costs, and environmental waste. With no price differential inertia sets in and people turn up on the day if its nice, but don't bother if its raining - no business could guarantee to keep going with such an unreliable source of income.

(Of course if you have the WCOC printer then this argument disappears.)

[RJ]

There will always be an element of 'fluff' in the 'wet weather' numbers turning up for an event. But the bulk of orienteers compete in whatever weather they get. If it is sunny and warm then you will attract quite a few 'hesitant participants'.

EOD surcharging doesn't, IMO, create at atmosphere conducive to encouraging new people into the sport. BUT.... pre-entry should only really apply to the higher level of event, and are we not looking at the committed orienteer there! With the new event structure the higher quality 'top end' events should perhaps have firm closing dates and no EOD. The other events should have EOD, no surcharge, and a system that caters for whoever turns up on the day regardless of the weather.

We seem to discuss the problems this topic generates endlessly. Surely with the management skills evident in the sport we can formulate a system that will encourage our lower level events to be completely welcoming and relatively easy to stage. This is where we need to expand our participation.

[ifor]

As has been mentioned the people hand copying had the choice of doing that or not being able to run that course so they made the choice. It was only realy done on an add hoc basis on the day. The radio had to be used to warn the start team that it was happening...

Ifor (BOK registration team...)

[EddieH]

"But the bulk of orienteers compete in whatever weather they get"

Maybe true in wet West Cumbria where wet is fairly normal, but up here the climate is really dry and it seems that when the weather does not live up to normal people fail to come in their droves.

[Roger]

Quote "Why should EOD cost extra?"

Simply because it encourages peoplke to ener early and therefore the organisers know how many maps to print thus saving on costs, and environmental waste. With no price differential inertia sets in and people turn up on the day if its nice, but don't bother if its raining - no business could guarantee to keep going with such an unreliable source of income.

Eddie, I entirely agree with the providing a price differential to encourage people to enter 'early', but I was actually asking why EOD should cost extra "compared to late entries on-line" -- i.e. after the maps have been printed.

Once they've got courses on, the unallocated maps are perishable commodities (a bit like hotel rooms or plane seats), and businesses often sell these at knock-down prices. There's a tension here: does the club wish to maximise revenue from this event, maximise longer-term participation, or relieve the burden on the volunteers in EOD team by encouraging pre-entry (no matter how late)? Different emphases will give different pricing structures.

(Of course if you have the WCOC printer then this argument disappears.)

Absolutely.

[Guest88]

I didn't suggest charging higher to EOD on the basis of maximising revenue - but if you have sufficient helper-time available then that you don't feel the need to charge it on to the customer then I shall enjoy waiting to see if the weather is nice before coming to your event - Thanks!