British champs

[greywolf]

Just been out in the forest - strange to have Culbin to myself again, and difficult to believe there were 1500 there the other day. In the forest there's very little in the way of tracking, you must all have been floating guess the dry weather before and during made a big difference, and probably knocked a minute or two off some times

Dunno about the Scottish Champs, i expect thats assigned somewhere already, but I'd be confident about future events in Culbin - I have most of the courses planned in my head already

[DanH]

In general I had a fantastic weekend and really enjoyed the classic race. However I do have a small gripe about the drinks point that the elite course passed twice on the Saturday, I hadn't stopped to have a drink previously and had decided to at this point (the second time, even though I knew that it would let a faster runner who I was with at the time get away). When I got there the cups were about a third full and so I took 2. When I went to take a third the man at the station put his hands over them to stop me having them as he said there wouldn't be sufficient for future runners.

At this point I must apologise to said man, as I now realise that it wasn't his fault but at the time he was the only person around to shout my frustration at. However, I do think it is a bit shabby that at the British Elite Long Distance Champs the drinks points aren't fully stocked. In total I had had less than a cup of water and the drinks point was on a main track - not difficult to reach by vehicle.

Dan Halliday

[EddieH]

The only disappointment about the individual is how few people put their route on Routegadget. Come on Axel.

[DavidJ]

The only disappointment about the individual is how few people put their route on Routegadget. Come on Axel.

I have also been waiting for Axel (once I found he had not been disqualified!). However, whilst waiting, I have enjoyed seeing the route choice of the winner of course 28. Not bad for 18 minutes!
And thanks to Eddie for putting his route on (course 15). It was only when checking my route at the finish that I spotted the southern route for the long leg (11-12) and thought it would have been a quicker route than any direct or northern options. Too late then to spot it!

[Axel]

Eddie,

As requested I have put drawn route. other than suffering a raging cough all the way round I was happy with most of my route selection except controls 3 to 4, 11 to 12 and 12 to 13. I have to admit didn't see your route on the day.

Great run well done.

Axel

[Mr timE]

Also, from what I picked up, Emit didn't exactly cover itself in glory.

Come on then awk explain this, I know there is a separate discussion line on this, but several points have been raised here. None of the controls failed, the relay commentary problems were down to using OS Speaker as jonm has said and the event actually used Si software not Etiming. The problems I did see were one laptop was 10 secs out on Day 1 (that's why many of the splits don't make sense) and for the relay there were again an inordinate number of last minute changes which surprise, suprise caused problems at download. When will we ever learn. For the Harvester teams will be issued with 7 or 5 ecards numbered by leg, so one card per leg, that card must go on that leg and we will catch up with the changes as fast as we can.

If Emit is that bad why is it used for most World Champs? Lets just accept that both systems are proven and work equally well, and the competition ensures they try to please we orienteers, it also means our top athletes get a chance to use both systems regularly. I just think one system is easier to use for the organising team and wasn't it nice not to have all those bleeps leading you into your controls in the green!

[NeilC]

So what was the problem with Axel's run? He is obviously very experienced with using EMIT and seemingly had the correct backup punch, yet was still recorded at download as having missed a control. Was this a problem with the e-card then that failed to electronically record the punch at this one control? If it was a card failure then this was unpredicted since presumably it worked OK at the -1 minute check and all previous (and later) controls. There are potential problems if an e-card goes down mid-race since a competitor would then be unable to demonstrate that they completed the course correctly.

[graeme]

None of the controls failed

except for the ones that did, e.g. the first control on M12 relay...

I've nothing against emit, but ignoring the facts doesn't help your case.

[Snail]

If Emit is that bad why is it used for most World Champs?

But at the World Champs isn't Emit only used for splits? I thought It isn't (or certainly wasn't in the past) used for timing because of the understandable concern about every competitor using a separate clock. Hence WOC has to have a separate timing system, which removes one of the significant advantages of an e-punching system.

[Big Jon]

IOF rules demand that all WOC races have 2 separate timing systems - Usually Emit or SI and another - often a video camera on the line. They don't trust any ONE system!

[drobin]

Was this a problem with the e-card then that failed to electronically record the punch at this one control?

I am reliably informed that the batteries in some individual e-cards may not always recover sufficiently to be able to record the next control visited. I don't know how close Axel's problem control(s) were (time wise) to each other, but it may be an indication that the battery life is expiring (akin to a torch getting dimmer quicker each time you switch it on). The Emit manuals give an expected life span of 10 to 12 years or c. 500 races, with 99% of all cards lasting more than 5 years. I guess it really depends on how many controls you visit and how you treat and store the card.

I started using my V3 card in 2004 and have done over 90 problem free events with it.

As a guide to knowing which way to place the card in the control, it is not helped by the units themselves being bolted differently onto the stakes. For my event in November, I will endeavor to ensure that they all face the same way, eg big end nearest the left hand control number. That should at least give you time to align your card, though I can't do much about your line of approach!

[HOCOLITE]

My card was less than 3 years old and had done very few events. It looks like it was a freak failure but that is small consolation when you've had a good run and end up as mispunched as no splits showed on card.

[deebee]

I wasn't there but... final details stated all competitors on a course would be issued with the same version e card yet I have spoken to two people on the same (M60L) course, one was issued with a V2 and one with a V3. Was he unlucky or was it more widespread? One of them was mp'd even though he punched.
This missing punch problem with Emit has been, in our experience, present since the first time we used it at the 1997 WOC spectator race, where Mrs B was dq'd for missing a control for the only time in her long and varied orienteering life. I suppose in one respect it's moved on, in Norway in 1997 we were asked to pay about £10 if we wanted them to check the pin punchmarks because "the Emit system does not make mistakes." (Perhaps it lost a little in translation?)

[SIman]

It might be too late for anyone to be interested or to care (hopefully not) but we have just managed to get the Relay event onto Routegadget here.

[DavidJ]

It might be too late for anyone to be interested

Well, you have one route added. Thanks for persevering.