EMIT at the British

[Kitch]

Gross
Is that M50S
or SM50 ?

[schnitzer]

(unless you are stupid enough not to use the card)

Or experienced enough.

As far as using "slow", "fast" or "lightning fast" punching - how long are you going to save? - a few seconds, Andy K is right - get out and do some technique training and fitness training and you'll save minutes rather than seconds.

I was out on Culbin and Lossie for over 3 hours on Monday doing line, control picks and trains. I do on average about 10 hours training a week but if it's all the same to you I'm interested in saving time any way I can thanks very much. Oh, and a few seconds are important...

Welsh Champs M21L:
1 Clive Hallett 1:03:39
2 Tim Britton 1:03:48
3 John Hartley 1:03:51

JK W21E:
1 Sarah Rollins 33:25
2 Elise Egseth 33:26
3 Helen Bridle 33:27

[Ed]

Not sure if anyone has ever discussed the three main ways of using EMIT (assume that your backup card stays where it is and remains in one piece) so here goes...

1. Bolts and braces (SLOW)...
2. Display (FAST)...
3. Light (FASTEST)...

Personally I find (found? I'm not sure when I last used Emit) that with practice the "Bolts and braces (SLOW)" approach was as fast as punching SI. Get to the unit, slap the brikke on it and go. On average probably quicker than looking for the little flashing light or the display.

Fumbling a punch on SI is as easy as it is to fumble Emit...

Jon's "top tip" with the insulating tape for the backup card is a must!

[schnitzer]

Ed - I don't doubt that you can get really fast at punching using the "Bolts and Braces" method. I used to do it like that b4 I started using the "Light" method and got quite good at working out which way I needed to slap the brick in whilst running up to the unit.

However I'm not sure that it could be ultimately be faster because the light will have flashed (not sure about the display changing) b4 your card has even touched the unit.

[Big Jon]

Schnitzer - I accept your need to look for seconds - but how many other orienteers train 10+ hours per week and regularly do technical training sessions (not just racing every weekend). I stand by my comments, wit ha proviso that if an orienteer is doing ALL THEY CAN to train physically and technically TO THEIR LIMIT then they can look for the seconds that punching quickly can save them....

[Adventure Racer]

Though for sprint racing the weighting between saving time punching and saving time orienteering is slightly shifted. After all it's pretty rare that losing 1 or 2 seconds at each control wouldn't cost you several places

[Harley]

Schnitzer - I accept your need to look for seconds - but how many other orienteers train 10+ hours per week and regularly do technical training sessions (not just racing every weekend). I stand by my comments, wit ha proviso that if an orienteer is doing ALL THEY CAN to train physically and technically TO THEIR LIMIT then they can look for the seconds that punching quickly can save them....

Hold on a minute ... you can't save time relative to other people by just swapping punching systems!! Schnitzer can't run around on EMIT while everyone else in the race uses SI. Swapping the system works for everyone, so it's irrelevant which system allows you to punch faster.

Lets stick to the relevant facts - EMIT is a great unweildy brick, and is crap!

[schnitzer]

Hold on a minute ... you can't save time relative to other people by just swapping punching systems!! Schnitzer can't run around on EMIT while everyone else in the race uses SI. Swapping the system works for everyone, so it's irrelevant which system allows you to punch faster.

Lets stick to the relevant facts - EMIT is a great unweildy brick, and is crap!

Harley, thank you for your constructive and well researched offering to this conversation. Your words are truly wise but if you read again Big Jon, Ed and I were discussing punching speed within the one system i.e. the clumsy crap one.

[schnitzer]

Though for sprint racing the weighting between saving time punching and saving time orienteering is slightly shifted. After all it's pretty rare that losing 1 or 2 seconds at each control wouldn't cost you several places

Yeah sprint racing good point I didn't think of that, but then lets stick to the facts - sprint races are just over-glorified street-o and are crap!

[Barny of Blandford]

A few thoughts
SI has the main power in the field unit and little in the SI Card
EMIT has the main power in the brick and little in the field unit
Having used both there are advantages and disadvantages to both
EMIT is fantastic for putting out - little to do except put it out - it does fail on odd occasions but is very robust and takes a lot of hammer
SI causes problems in the field when the battery life starts to get low and needs programming before it goes out (the new ones just need time master to set quickly)
Both systems can have problems when large numbers go through a control in a short time - putting more out at the same place does not always win because 'sods law' says that they will all use the left hand one
With being 'retired' I use EMIT and SI every week at Wednesday and weekend events and think nothing of it
I can miss the hole with a SI Card as easily as I start to put the brick in backwards - sober or otherwise
Some countries use only SI - some use only EMIT
You get used to what you use and it is no good complaining about the systems - both are a darn sight better than pin punching (hardly an alternative)
I agree that there could be an issue over whether we should have two systems in the country but the one advantage of having two systems is that it encourages each system to improve and update - for example series 3 emit bricks and the new SI red boxes
Finally as it has appeared on this thread - what have people against street and park events - it is another discipline and requires different skills and techniques. Look at the uptake for the JK and other major city events. If you youngsters can't 'hack it' shame on you - get practicing
In Norway they run series of street events with over 800 turning up - all run the same course and starts are every 15sec.

[EddieH]

I have just been looking at WinSplits for my relay run. It tells me that without mistakes I would have won
For some reason one of my splits appears to be about 2 minutes too long meaning that I had a great victory on the next leg.
Similarly we all did badly on leg 10 which Brendan Bolland is supposed to have won by an inconceivable margin.
If a control unit can throw out an anomoly like this what is the possiblilty of it doing so in the last control which I belive to be no different?

[EddieH]

Oh! and Simon Errington must have swapped with Darren Campbell and laid a tartan track to 3

[EddieH]

On closer inspection leg 3 is not just an oddity for Simon - it would appear that the units were probably consistent, but that 2 different units at the site were on different times.

[distracted]

On closer inspection leg 3 is not just an oddity for Simon - it would appear that the units were probably consistent, but that 2 different units at the site were on different times.

That can't be the case, as with EMIT there is no clock in the unit, just in the card...

[EddieH]

I am talking through my backside as I have not compared like with like and I have no idea what the gaffles were.

However my own 2 minute anomoly is an Emit error.