World Schools Champs 2008

[SJC]

A crass decision by the organisers to class her as no competive,

Presumably not a decision by the organisers, but imposed on them by the ISF.

It would be interesting to see a proper explanation of why she was disqualified though.

[Mrs H]

So it would seem that the ISF have another variant of the team competition concept on top of the BSOA one I described earlier.

That being the case what puzzles me is why the poor girl's entry was accepted in the first place if it was always obvious that she was going to be deemed non-comp. I hope to God she was informed of that before she took the decision to enter with all the expense and disruption which travelling would entail (she may have been coming for BOC anyway but i can't imagine it's school holidays anywhere now).

[candyman]

I hope that Aine is rightly proud and satisfied with her runs so far at the World Schools Champs, what an outstanding talent!

Her great results and outstanding potential have been and are being recognised by everybody outside of the ISF so it has hardly been a waste of her time competing at the World Schools and with any luck her great success will lead to some changes to the rules and an even better and fairer World Schools Championships in the future.

Congratulations to all the British athletes for their outstanding efforts so far!

[Barny of Blandford]

In November when we ran the British Schools in Dorset the main event on the Sunday was no problem as 'British' includes Wales, Ireland and Scotland.
The selection race on Saturday was another problem.
Initially only English could run. There was some dispute over Wales and eventually the decision was taken (not by us) that they could run as for some reason Wales can be selected as part of the England team provided the Welsh Sports Council agree (don't ask me why)
Ireland and Scotland were not allowed to run.
Scotland solved the problem for us as no one entered the weekend - not surprising in view of the distance.
Northern Ireland has an easy way of getting to us - Ryanair to Bournemouth - and we agreed on the quiet to let them run in the selection race as n/c as it seemed daft to only let them run one race when coming all that way. They were aware that they would be n/c and quite happy with that - they ran first.
I do not pretend to understand the reasons why Wales is part of us or what. Also why Northern Ireland (or for that matter Ireland as a whole) do not qualify.
It needs someone who is much more in the know to explain the why and why not.

[Mrs H]

There's a report on the BOF news page about the Scottish winning a team bronze medal no mention of the English, Welsh (or Irish) teams. I'm sure they must have won something - anyone know?

[brooner]

report coming! just writing it now, but England topped the medal tables ahead of Sweden and Latvia, thanks to three gold medals, two silver and two bronze today.

[Nottinghamshire outlaw]

On the ISF web site the section on 'competitions' says:
School teams, composed of members of the same school, take part in the competitions.

It goes on to say that there are technical commissions which oversee the competitions for specific sports - but no specific information. The people who know all the rules are at the event!

Back in 1995 Peter Palmer decided to take a team from Walton High School and asked me if I would like to take the then victorious Year 9 girls team from West Bridgford to the ISF event in Estonia - so we went. We were very naive and thought we could just enter - 'we' (orienteering) weren't members of the national School Sports body and Peter had to do some fast talking/phoning etc to join us up to that. In those days there was no national Schools Association for Orienteering and so after Estonia the BSOA was born.

I think that the ISF recognises national School Sport associations and there are separate ones for England and Scotland. I don't think that there is such a body in Wales (hence there have been some Welsh people in the 'England' team - Kris Jones this year for example). Ireland is different again - but here I am on hazy ground - there may be an Irish School Sports body based in the south?

What I DO know, however, is what was written elsewhere - that a country cannot send a 'select' team in any age class unless there is a 'school' team in that class - which takes me back to the ISF which says that the competitions are for 'school teams' primarily.

[awk]

The criteria gets a bit wishy washy at that point and needs to be one thing or the other..... without the token gesture towards schools teams in the latter

Have to disagree. the criteria are not wishy washy at all - they are very precise. The BSOA wanted understandably to give priority to those from school teams as opposed to individuals running in BSOC: the team concept is important to BSOA, and I applaud them for it. The priority is precisely defined: 3 places are guaranteed to those with teams in BSOC, with a maximum of 2 available to those without teams. This is not a token gesture, but an effort to precisely define the phrase 'give priority' whilst still giving others a chance of selection (selectors regularly being accused of not precisely defining criteria!).

So some people go to the effort of raising a team aimed at the event. Gosh, how underhand! Definitely cheating! Rather than calling them stooges, I'd say good for them, at least they're giving it a go. As a selector, we were always careful to check that those in school teams had satisfied the criteria for competing at BSOC, so it wasn't just a case of somebody turning up on the day to make up a team.

You may not like the criteria, but they are definitely not wishy washy, rather very clear cut and do give priority to those with school teams as set as a priority for BSOA.

[Mrs H]

Well he would say that, wouldn't he?"

Perhaps it is I who should have been more precise - it's the definition of a school team that is wishy washy - you know as perfectly well as I that it is entirely possible to persuade two other people to come along to the qualifying amount of pre-BSOC events (3) and then go to BSOC (they don't even need to complete the course) and we both know it's been done and without any investment in developing orienteering in the said school. I never said it was cheating - it's playing the system - which is there to be played as you well know - got to dash got a MADO to put on

[andy]

The DSQ was an ISF decision, not an organiser one. (edit: Their rule is that you must be part of a team to be competitive individually, might not make much sense but that's their rule)

Full results are online now http://www.wsco2008.org.uk/

Was an awesome week and everyone seemed to enjoy it!

[awk]

Perhaps it is I who should have been more precise - it's the definition of a school team that is wishy washy

No, it's not wishy-washy at all; it's precisely defined. Again, you may not like it, but there it is.

- you know as perfectly well as I that it is entirely possible to persuade two other people to come along to the qualifying amount of pre-BSOC events (3) and then go to BSOC (they don't even need to complete the course) and we both know it's been done and without any investment in developing orienteering in the said school.

Of course I know, but where I disagree with you is the level of investment: there is after all far more investment in developing orienteering by that youngster who has done the persuasion than is done by most juniors who go along in the wake of the teacher who runs the club. Yes, it is relatively limited, but the rule was deliberately set to give youngsters a chance of doing something about it without relying on the school, which as we all well know is very dependent on having the right individual in the right place. Personally, I applaud those juniors who have the get up and go to raise even those small teams, although I do appreciate some may have tried without success.

[HOCOLITE]

Enough of the back biting. It looks like it was a cracking event, the Scots must have worked really hard and with little manpower I guess. A great big to the organisers. The photos are smashing, the web site showing the friendship relay with the revolving photos is brilliant. It shows the spirit of the event. I'm certain the competitors have had an experience they won't forget. There will be more English, Scots and Irish wanting to go next time. I'm sure that despite the rulings on teams Aine McCann will have had a brilliant time and will be inspired for the future, whether it is schools or international.

I think this event has been a great shopwindow for schools and junior orienteering.

[andy]

There will be more English, Scots and Irish wanting to go next time.

Next time is next year in Spain, they're moving from even to odd years so only a year away!

Scottish selection races can't be far away (probably scottish schools festival on 6th June (edited to correct date))

[Denise]

There will be more English, Scots and Irish wanting to go next time.

Next time is next year in Spain, they're moving from even to odd years so only a year away!

Scottish selection races can't be far away (probably scottish schools champs on 6th May)

What!! Really!! Where did you find that info Andy?

Huge congratulations to the 2 Aboyne schools teams. Aboyne and Maroc are so proud of you all. I'm sure this will inspire more Aboyne pupils to join the school team and try and get to Spain next year.

[EddieH]

I suspect that they have done Aine a huge favour. Who will remember the champions in a few years time?

Everyone remotely involved remembers Bill Gauld's "stolen win" in the World Masters nearly 15 years ago. How many actual champions from that event are remembered?