BUSA

[mharky]

and there we have it, the solution.

what about the relay though? a uni-sex adhoc B relay? although with the limited amount of teams a the usual high DSQ rate this wouldn't leave many teams left...

[damo]

I agree - the uni-sex adhoc B relay idea is a very good one , however one potential problem for the smaller clubs is that it can be difficult to get even one entire relay team out (especially when injuries etc. can unexpectedly crop up after we have entered BUSA more than a month previously) and we would want to enter that team onto an 'A' course that would count towards BUSA points. So I don't know how many teams would take it up.

An idea, perhaps not a good one though , would be to have two medium legs and one shorter leg, which elite teams can view as a 'sprint' leg. B teams and teams from small clubs can then get their weak orienteer who is along to make up the team to do the short leg - for a novice if something is short it does not matter if it is TD5!

[Scott]

for a novice if something is short it does not matter if it is TD5!

Not entirely convinced by that - throwing novices into something to difficult too soon will only lead to them becoming incredibly frustrated, and perhaps put them off the sport. (This is speaking as someone who spent almost ten minutes searching for his ~90sec first control on Sunday )

I'm definitely in favour of some sort of ad-hoc relay class, though - and as I appear to have been shanghaied into organising next year's relay, I'm open to suggestions...

[Patrick]

I don't think any elites give a toss about BUSA. However, university sports unions do care. BUSA Orienteering is part of the overall BUSA championships. You win, you get points. You get points, your uni is happy. Your uni is happy, they continue to fund your club.

You seem to think that winning BUSA and taking along a lot of newcomers (or "punters", to use your delightfully dismissive term) are mutually exclusive options. Why on earth should they be? I don't recall if you were at the EUOC Anniversary Dinner in (I think) 2004, but Messrs Musgrave, Tullie Sr and others all stressed that what had made EUOC so strong over the years was the combination of elite success and a solid base of non-elites who shared in all the activities and enjoyment that the club provided. As a former member, I'd be extremely disappointed if this was no longer the club's ethos.

In any case, given that most Unis who aren't Edinburgh or Sheffield have less than a snowball's chance of winning BUSA, your point is irrelevant. I suspect most sports unions, while they would love to see tangible success, would much prefer it if a minibus of people went, struggled round and had a great time than if only the one or two experienced orienteers many clubs can muster bothered to turn out.

This is the only sport that I know where people think that BUSA is about mass participation and attracting newcomers.

I don't believe this. When I ran BUSA X-Country for Edinburgh Uni in 1993 everyone in the club was encouraged to turn out and run. While we obviously wanted to put out a strong first team, it was equally important to get as many people out as possible. I'm sure things haven't changed that much.

Maybe we should ask BUSA what they see their event as? Because if you read their website it certainly makes it sound like a championship.

We could borrow an idea from one of the other threads, and have both an Elite BUSA and a Punter BUSA. Obviously they'll have to take place on the same day so that the elite athletes don't have their event tainted by the presence of competitors who might never have been on a Halden training tour or don't own a Mila head torch. As it'll be such an important competition, the bar on Saturday night will serve only Gatorade and Isostar and everyone will be tucked up in their own bed by 10pm, ready to demonstrate their serious seriousness in the relay. Sounds like a winner to me!

Patrick

[mharky]

You've missed my point.

You are talking about individual clubs' meaning of BUSA. Which should be about getting the whole club out with a strong first team.

I am talking about the meaning of a BUSA championships, which is to find BUSA Champions. As such, it should have champion worthy courses.

BUSA XC is a great example. The A course is a proper cross country course ~10km. This year BOF employee and GB XC internationalist Andy Vernon went round in 33 mins, the lanterne rouge took 51 mins. I very much doubt Reading Uni will be asking if it can be made easier next year.

Similarly, the BUSA marathon is always going to be a marathon, no matter how long it takes you.

The BUSA road cycling championships is meant to be 80-120 miles, because that's how long a road race is. That doesn't mean after I get my 4th cat arse dropped out the peleton and then get picked up by the broom wagon because the road closure is ending I go and complain saying it was too long. That's the course, you gotta run in.

I could go on and on through every sport. But I don't want to labour the point.

So, in summary.

I'm not saying don't take punters to BUSA, I'm saying don't lower BUSA to their level. Keep it as a championship. And if it's too hard, don't change the A course, have a B course... of just accept you're going to take a long time.

[Guest88]

Orienteering in Britain has polluted BUSA with it's amateur and punterish ways. This is the only sport that I know where people think that BUSA is about mass participation and attracting newcomers. That's what beginers evets are for.

Maybe we should ask BUSA what they see their event as? Because if you read their website it certainly makes it sound like a championship.

MISSION STATEMENT
• To provide the highest level of sports competition across all abilities throughout universities
Great Britain.
• To drive involvement and participation at the university level and beyond through
competition and opportunity.

[mharky]

Yeah, I've read that too.

That's the BUSA Missions statement, for BUSA as an organistion. I'm talking about the BUSA Championships.

[Guest88]

You said "Orienteering has polluted BUSA with it's amateur and punterish ways"

You also said "This is the only sport that I know where people think that BUSA is about mass participation and attracting newcomers."

Both of these statements are about as flat wrong as you can get, as indicated by the BUSA mission statement posted above.

If you want to retract those comments, and repost them pertaining specifically to the BUSA champs then you are welcome...although you'll still be wrong - unfortunately for elite types who don't like ordinary punters being at the BUSA Championships, it is a small sport and not feasible that BUSA would advocate putting on separate initiatives for punters and elites.

[jarkko_01]

Both of these statements are about as flat wrong as you can get, as indicated by the BUSA mission statement posted above.

If you want to retract those comments, and repost them pertaining specifically to the BUSA champs then you are welcome...although you'll still be wrong - unfortunately for elite types who don't like ordinary punters being at the BUSA Championships, it is a small sport and not feasible that BUSA would advocate putting on separate initiatives for punters and elites.

Well said.

[The Loofa]

Something's been puzzling me about these BUSA results
How does Helen Winskill manage to run for Sheffield Hallam at BUSA one weekend and SHUOC at the JK the next weekend?
Can someone shed some light please

[Gross]

Dodgy..... scandel.... call the press.... get in the news... how come France beat England tonite:)

[andy]

Something's been puzzling me about these BUSA results
How does Helen Winskill manage to run for Sheffield Hallam at BUSA one weekend and SHUOC at the JK the next weekend?
Can someone shed some light please

it's a 'sheffield universities' thing. the club itself covers all unis in sheffield whereas at busa you must represent your uni. same applies to Edinburgh with Heriot Watt / Napier Uni

[Tatty]

Appaerntly Hallam don't actually have an official orienteering club!

[J.Tullster]

Interesting to read all this chat about BUSA.
I feel the whole issue is being argued over an awful lot, when I don't think there's an awful lot wrong with the BUSA champs!
This year and the past few years have all been great events. Good races for the elites and everyone else for that matter, good partying and generally good banter. There are B courses available. To me it seems like a great event for newcomers to take part in. Most newcomers in my experience want a challenge and also a fun weekend. I think BUSA has all this more than any other weekend for a student newcomer. Common sense would say don't have your inexperienced people on the A course starting near the end and maybe some shorted ad hoc relay courses would be a good idea, but other than that i don't think much needs changing.
Just a thought.