BUSA

[Spookster]

The full relay results are on the Shuoc website. The summary is:

Mens:
1. ShUOC
2. EUOC
3. OUOC
4. ShUOC
5. CUOC
6. EUOC
7. ShUOC
8. UDOC
9. NUOC
10. OUOC
11. UWOC
12. UMOC
13. ULOC
dsq UDOC
dsq EUOC
dsq BUOC
dsq IOC
+ several teams Retired.

Womens:
1. Hallam
2. EUOC
3. OUOC
4. ShUOC
5. CUOC
6. EUOC
7. UBOC
8. ULOC
9. BUOC
10. ShUOC
11. UMOC
dsq UDOC
dsq ShUOC
dsq CUOC
dsq UDOC
+ several teams Retired.

[damo]

Congratulations to ShUOC for hosting a great BUSA.

In the controllers comments Charlie said:

'There is one other issue for I need to apologise and that is the issue of course closing times. Due to my oversight this was an issue which had not been considered before the day. In an attempt to be as efficient as possible in getting packed up, one of the control collectors jumped the gun a bit. Only a handful of competitors were affected, most of which seemed to be grateful for an excuse not to have to finish the course. One person was somewhat unhappy though and again I can only say sorry to her.'

Now thankfully this did not affect London this year but it did affect us last year when Durham were hosting BUSA so I think it is an important recurring issue that OUOC should take into consideration next year. I can think of several options:

1) Advise teams to put any particularly slow runners on the first leg
2) Do an earlier mass start
3) Have the start of the relay earlier (this is dependent on there being enough light in the morning and having enough volunteers without severe hangovers)

He then went on to say:

'This issue really comes back to the purpose of BUSA: is it to provide competition at the highest level between the best students or is it to encourage student participation in orienteering, or possibly both? Again some more guidance from BUSA would be useful for future organisers to help decide what standard of courses need to be available.'

Unfortunately I don't think that the world of orienteering can afford to be choosy here, our sport has declining numbers and needs fresh blood. In the world outside ShUOC and EUOC most university orienteering club members are new to the sport and will not initially be able to compete at an elite level even if they do have future potential. Obviously it is necessary and desirable for the standard of the 'A' courses to be challenging (more so than a regional) and to be a true test for elite orienteers, however surely this can be achieved without it becoming a 'Varsity match' between EUOC and ShOUC with no one else invited. For instance I believe last year Durham made the Men's C and the Women's B course of light green standard to cater for novices.

[Spookster]

I can think of several options:

1) Advise teams to put any particularly slow runners on the first leg
2) Do an earlier mass start
3) Have the start of the relay earlier (this is dependent on there being enough light in the morning and having enough volunteers without severe hangovers)

I don't think team strategy should be influenced by having to meet course closing times. An earlier mini-mass start would be possible, but might mean a large proportion of the teams end up being in this. On Sunday we delayed the first mini-mass start, as runners were taking longer than expected and we didn't want too many teams in the mini-mass start. Have the start of the relay earlier? Haha, very funny.

'This issue really comes back to the purpose of BUSA: is it to provide competition at the highest level between the best students or is it to encourage student participation in orienteering, or possibly both? Again some more guidance from BUSA would be useful for future organisers to help decide what standard of courses need to be available.'

Unfortunately I don't think that the world of orienteering can afford to be choosy here, our sport has declining numbers and needs fresh blood. In the world outside ShUOC and EUOC most university orienteering club members are new to the sport and will not initially be able to compete at an elite level even if they do have future potential. Obviously it is necessary and desirable for the standard of the 'A' courses to be challenging (more so than a regional) and to be a true test for elite orienteers, however surely this can be achieved without it becoming a 'Varsity match' between EUOC and ShOUC with no one else invited. For instance I believe last year Durham made the Men's C and the Women's B course of light green standard to cater for novices.

I agree absolutely, BUSA relays needs to cater both for the elite and for the novices. Maybe what is needed is a third relay class, not combined with Mens or Womens open, that has shorter and easier legs. On Sunday the relays were planned for about 40 minutes winning time, but in fact the leaders were taking 45, and about a quarter of all runners were taking over 75 minutes, some as long as 2 and a half hours.

As Charlie suggests, some guidance or brief guidelines for the BUSA weekend would be helpful to future organisers, which needs to include expected winning times, course technical standards, and how to fairly arrange the individual start list, taking account of "one-year-downers" who aren't competitive in BUSA but are running for World Students selection.

[andy]

Maybe what is needed is a third relay class, not combined with Mens or Womens open, that has shorter and easier legs.

I'm sure there used to be an ad-hoc relay at BUSA, or am I going senile? I was too hungover last year to remember...

It can be difficult with BUSA where you have a small number of competitive teams ranging from 3 international athletes to 3 relative novices (who want to be in the same competition as the top teams). Who wants a relay competition with only 3/4 teams in it?

Perhaps the best way forward is to have a big combined competition with much shorter legs - 25-30 ELT

[SIman]

[quote="andy]I'm sure there used to be an ad-hoc relay at BUSA, or am I going senile? I was too hungover last year to remember...[/quote]
Not sure about last year, but in 2006 EUOC had an Ad Hoc class which ran the women's courses.

[RJ]

Or you could just leave the controls out there for a little longer..... It isn't that critical to collect them in by a fixed time!! Just be a little more flexible.

[Stodgetta]

There always used to be an ad hoc relay - I remember planning one for BUSF 95...

[Tessa]

Not that I was there, but I think it was the Birmingham team that were affected by controls being collected in.

Firstly, all that went came back saying they had a great time so thank you so much to ShUOC for organising sucha great weekend.

Just a thought on BUSA relays, if the winning times for each leg are 30 mins, then it is likely that you may have a team averaging 75-90 min per leg, but that is fairly normal. If the winning times are more like 45 mins, you have to be prepared for some seriously slow teams and so you do have to make adjustments. You can have a BUSA relay aimed at the top competitors with the longer winning times, but then you have to adjust other things like minimass start times and control collecting.

My personal view is that actually BUSA is better a bit shorter on the relays as hanging around at that time of year can be cold and its better everyone has a good time. But maybe that is a view from Birmingham and that if we were competitive maybe I would be more elite minded.

Just to say again, thank you everyone who put the event on, from what I have heard it was awesome and I'm jealous I wasnt there.

[mharky]

This is the BUSA Championships we are talking about. If you want to punt, do it else where.

[Patrick]

This is the BUSA Championships we are talking about. If you want to punt, do it else where.

If you want to run a serious elite race, don't get everyone trollied the night before.

Patrick

[harry]

Completely agree with G. Maybe I am biased because I never went to Shef or Edin but come on! How many elites can really say BUSA is the pinnacle of their season? BUSA should be more about mass participation and attracting & keeping newcomers to the sport.

If you aren't part of the Shef/Edin battle it really doesn't matter, even for WUOC selection the selectors have and will prioritise other results later in the season. There are numerous occasions where BUSA medalists & even winners (Ben Roberts, Jo Stevenson) have not made the eventual WUOC team.

BUSA is a nice early season tune-up race & a good party. It's also a really good opportunity to put on a good event/ show for newcomers, so I think the organisers should priortise that part. That doesn't mean to say neglect the quality of the orienteering, far from it.

[mharky]

I don't think any elites give a toss about BUSA. However, university sports unions do care. BUSA Orienteering is part of the overall BUSA championships. You win, you get points. You get points, your uni is happy. Your uni is happy, they continue to fund your club.

Orienteering in Britain has polluted BUSA with it's amateur and punterish ways. This is the only sport that I know where people think that BUSA is about mass participation and attracting newcomers. That's what beginers evets are for.

Maybe we should ask BUSA what they see their event as? Because if you read their website it certainly makes it sound like a championship.

[Joykok]

Great orienteering and organisation at BUSA this year!

Big up respect to all involved...SHUOC, SPOOK, G, chipmunks...the lot!

Commadore Lord General Sir Michael Jacko Snus of Stirling Moss

[harry]

But so few Unis/ people compete it's easy to do well enough to keep your Sports Union happy & giving you cash. I think like most sports governing body types BUSA would want to push the elites AND raise particpation.
BUSA O had ~75 men altogether A+B+C BUSA cross country typically gets over ~250 men
BUSA O had 19 Unis TOTAL BUSA xc had 36 teams with 4 mens counters.

Part of the reason why orienteering is getting increasingly punterish is because it's participants are getting OLD & even dying. I'm sure all these development officers & participation manager are pushing things with schools & clubs but Unis are important too. A lot of stalwarts started orienteering at Uni back when orienteering seemed kind of adventurous. Back in the day LUOC was the biggest sports club at Leeds Uni & took coachloads to local events.
NTNUI orientering has over 100 members on it's facebook group & always has multiple Tio Mila teams (of course there aren't too many Unis to choose from in Norway). But imagine how good Mharky could feel if he won BUSA, with 100 teammates cheering him on and fawning over him on the coach home. His sports Union would give him a fat cheque and like a shiny trophy for sure. Sweet.

As more & more "family" orienteers choose Edinburgh & Sheffield there are less & less Unis with clubs dragging a few newcomers into the sport. Maybe Barrable can get some obscure Unis to advertise in Compass Sport..

Wo feels pretty worthy speaking up for participation but I need to go training now & get back in self obsessed elite mode.

[Spookster]

Maybe what is needed is a third relay class, not combined with Mens or Womens open, that has shorter and easier legs.

I'm sure there used to be an ad-hoc relay at BUSA, or am I going senile? I was too hungover last year to remember...

There was an Ad Hoc category at this year's BUSA, but as in previous years it was on the same courses as Womens A, which means it's TD5. My suggestion is that there needs to be a course more suited to novices/non-elites, at about 2/3 the length of the Mens/Womens A courses, and TD3/4.

That way the elites get the championship, but the punters (who are an essential part of university orienteering) can also enjoy the event, without having to spend 2 to 3 hours struggling round a course that is too long and difficult.