BOC 2008 maps - Stupid Decision

[graeme]

Since you asked...

You aren't getting the whole story. Mapper and test runner (and, I think, planner?) prefer 1:7500. Controller, Map Group
and Events committee prefer 1:10000. When there's a disagreement, the controller should make the call.

I haven't seen the map. From a personal perspective since the M45 is not clearer than 21, its that long training run time of year again!

One thing I really hope is that when it is again impossible to read the BOC map on the run, the clamour will be for clearer mapping rather
than 1:7500 as the norm. Sanddunes are, and have always been, special.

[Gnitworp]

Wow Gnitworp, but with that reading ability, can you see the dunes?

See 'O Glasses' thread 12th March 2007

[awk]

Since you asked...
When there's a disagreement, the controller should make the call.

And I have great respect for him. I hope to goodness he's right though, as this is to my mind the only genuine justification that EC and map group have, none of them presumably having forest experience of the map. My concern is that the entire argument put forward is based on the letter of rules (which do allow for variations, although those aren't mentioned). Not once is what should be the prime concern, the needs of the competitors, ever addressed.

[Snail]

It's also possible that planner and test runner are using laser-printed versions of the map, but that Map Group and Events Committee are basing their decision on the expectation of an offset printed competition map which (as discussed on another thread) might be clearer...

[IanD]

It appears from the statement on the BOF web site that Events Committee feel that the elite should have a 1:15000 map, but this is not possible due to circumstances beyond their control. Had there been a 1:15000 map, the veterans would have got a 1:10000 enlargement. Therefore, they deduce, 1:10000 for everybody should be fine.

I fear there is a flaw in this logic. A 1:10000 enlargement of a 1:15000 map has thicker lines and bigger symbols, and this, as much as the scale, is why it is more readable for those of us with old eyes.

Anyway, the decision has been made by those best qualified to make it. I'm not going to say it's wrong until after the event - and I hope not then.

[Adventure Racer]

Like most of us I haven't seen the BOC map but I know that the recent decision was made by people with the maps in front of them.

So there will be rather more n/c people than normal at BOC2008?

I'm afraid it still strikes me as a decision largely made because they considered that 1:10,000 was just about OK for the older age groups, so allowed them to stick to the guidelines they were trying their hardest not to break, rather than because it's the best choice of scale from a competitive perspective. I suppose I should hope this sets a precedent and is repeated as I get older given my far better than average eyesight (hoping it doesn't now deteriorate quickly)

[SJC]

It appears from the statement on the BOF web site that Events Committee feel that the elite should have a 1:15000 map, but this is not possible due to circumstances beyond their control.

The 'circumstances beyond their control' appear to be that the map is unusable at 1:15,000, hence the reason the elite are going to have a 1:10,000 map.

Controller, Map Group and Events committee prefer 1:10000

In which case can just one of them please post a simple answer to the question that has been asked a number of times, if the Elite need a 1:10,000 map to be able to read it why do they think the older age groups don't need an enlarged version ?

[martyn]

A few years ago "BOF" made the decision to introduce ... a sprint into the JK. People objected to both of these.

Pedants corner... It was actually the organising region (YHOA) that introduced the sprint race as an innovation to JK Friday in 2006, albeit as a stand alone and elite invitation event and not part of the overall competition. It was such a success, that BOF adopted it properly the following year.

[RJ]

I understand your line SJC, but it also says that the map was surveyed for 1:10000. So it would not be possible to have a readable 1:15000 from the survey detail. The decision therefore implies that it is the elite who are losing out, and had it been possible they would have had a 1:15000, leaving the rest of us with the 1:10000.

Those are the guidelines and the rules interpretation for map scales.

The use of the 1:10000 scale is buried in the thinking of pre-history!! Now-a-days we can print any number of maps at any number of scales because printing has become more accessible and much cheaper. So we should be examining now.... which scale makes the 'racing' and the sport more enjoyable for the participants. There is no doubt that the larger scales on complex areas makes it so much more 'fun'.... and that is what we want.

Experiment with scales at your own Club, District and Regional events on various maps, and lets build up a body of opinion at grass roots level, and then pass that upwards to Events Committee and Rules Group. That is how most changes in the sport have happened... from the bottom up!!

Does it really matter what the actual scale is of the map you are racing with. If you are in contact with the map/terrain then the 'picture' is being interpreted as you see it. So long as you know roughly what the scale is then that is enough.... and so long as there is a scale bar on the map so you can estimate 100m for your pacing.... that is, if you use pacing!

[SJC]

The decision therefore implies that it is the elite who are losing out, and had it been possible they would have had a 1:15000, leaving the rest of us with the 1:10000.

I understand that the elite would have liked a 1:15,000 map, but had one been produced it would necessarily have had a lot less detail on it in order to be readable at this scale.
In these circumstances an enlarged map at 1:10,000 for the older age groups would have been perfect.

But the 1:10,000 map we are going to get isn't going to be like that. The committees have agreed that the map produced has so much detail on it that it is unusable at 1;15,000. Hence the reason the Elite are getting a 1:10,000 map.
But because there is this much detail on the 10,000 map then it is going to be very difficult to read at this scale for the old age groups. Hence the reason we should get a 1:7,500 version.

[NeilC]

I fear there is a flaw in this logic. A 1:10000 enlargement of a 1:15000 map has thicker lines and bigger symbols, and this, as much as the scale, is why it is more readable for those of us with old eyes.

As I understand ISOM/IOF rules ALL 1:10000 maps should have enlarged symbols (eg maps used for international middle races and relays). Whether this provides significantly more clarity that a 1:15000 map with 'normal' symbol sizes is debatable. However this should mean that the BOC map will have enlarged symbols.

[EddieH]

Like most others I will await the event in as open minded a way as possible, still fairly sure that the wrong decision has been made, but without letting it affect me.

As a side issue the comments here prove? my point (and Graeme's) about the World Masters Championships. As there are no M21's involved maps are made at 1:10000 with mappers in most countries thinking they'll make as "good" and complex a map aas possible. They thus produce maps that could not be reduced to 1:15000 and are in many parts unreadable for the very audience they are maade for. Witness Austria where I had a single pixel reentrant - t100% invisible even with magnification well above my optician's recommended reading glass strength.

[awk]

The plot thickens.....I gather there is now an appeal under way. Who, when, what, why, how etc. I have no idea, just that there is one. Time's getting awfully tight.

[redkite]

I was lucky enough today to run the Welsh Short race at Oxwich Burrows. For those of you who do not know the area it is a complex sand area. The previous map was at 1:10,000 and I (an M50 with probably average eyesight, once contact lenses in place) always struggled to read and run at the same time. The map used today was at 1:7,500 and boy, what a difference. Made the whole experience much much better.

[Axel]

Yesterday I ran in the Interland M50/55 class, which utilised a 1: 10.000 map and had great difficulty trying to read the map throughout the race. I certainly could not run at full race speed and read the map at the same time. Another problem was the Control Description, which were printed in the smallest font possible with a really light ink. Impossible for me to read at a fast walk let alone on the run and unfortunately they were not printed on the map. Another point I found very irritating was the control codes were hand written on the T Bar and in some cases the numbers were half rubbed off.

Albeit a very enjoyable weekend, good company, well hosted by the Dutch, weather was a bit blowy but it didn't rain, however frustrating orienteering.

Hopefully we won't suffer the latter 2 problems at the Brit Champs, however there is a possibility of encountering the first problem with the utilising the same scale map. Why take the chance and spoil countless competitors chance of enjoying what is our foremost competiton of the year!!