BOC 2008 maps - Stupid Decision

[greywolf]

Events Committee has spoken and its 1:10000 for everyone. A news item will be on the BOF website later.
Bizarrely, most of what it discusses is completely irrelevant. Stupid stupid stupid

Apparently there was little evidence of membership views (except for all those who contacted them and raised the issue, d'oh), 1:7,500 isn't specifically provided for in the rules (so re-write the guidelines to be consistent) and the elite competition group had wanted 1:15,000, in which case the oldies would have got 1:10,000 anyway (but of course as Jon M has pointed out, that would be a different map, with different resolution).

Oh and apparently it's really important that it's a different area from that used for the 6 days. Except that a) the 6 day area is being used, for the the relays, and b) the main difference is that the BOC area has more complex terrain, covering a much larger proportion of the area

Basically they were more concerned to back up the decision of their sub-group than to make a sensible decision for the future of the sport.
If you reject an enlarged scale for Culbin on the grounds upon which they appear to have based their decision, then logically there is no justification for providing an enlarged map at any event - either older competitors need enlarged maps of complex areas to compensate for fading eyesight or they don't. Apparently Map group and Events Committee have decided they don't. Muppets

[awk]

Very disappointing (mild word) news Greywolf. I am particularly disappointed given that it's Events Committee again. How did you find all this out, particularly where you say that most of what the news item discusses is irrelevant? It's Wednesday evening, the decision was taken on Saturday, but there is still nothing on the BOF website.

What this does underline to me is how appalling the channels of communication in BOF remain. They might be better at getting glossy magazines out, but the real communication is still awful (and it really does seem to still be 'us' and 'them', as this decision shows). If what you say is true about what is/was said on member communication, surely if you're going to discuss something at a meeting but not tell anyone you're going to discuss it, then you really are in no position to talk about whether people have been in touch or not.

What further worries me is that this is likely to get worse, as representation of members as opposed to "expertise" on key groups continues to decline. Events Committee is an example of this, and RJ's "appropriate" lines of communication are so tenuous as to be non-existent, with nothing replacing them.

This standard of communication is for me reflected in the fact that in spite of having formally written to the chairman of Map Group twice, he still has not even acknowledged my correspondence. Says it all really.

[marcus_weatherburn]

and somebody told me on here that bof arent ridiculous

[RJ]

Wooooooo..... just hold on...... This is a group of experienced orienteers with a great deal of knowledge of the subject, and they have made a decision. OK, so you don't like the outcome, but then NONE of us are actually qualified to make that decision. For a start.... we haven't seen the map! Please moderate the criticism, particularly the language used.

The whole question of map scales needs to be reviewed. One way of dealing with it is for clubs, at their District and Regional events, printing the larger scale, say 1:7500, for the older competitors if the area is more readable, and therefore making running/navigating easier. If we have a body of experience as competitors running on these various scales and map complexity then WE have a basis for making good decisions, as in the BOC08 case. For me, running at Bouth (LOC Regional event) on the 1:7500 version of the map was a real treat. I was able to navigate while running, which is what the sport is all about. I can still remember, vividly, where and why I made my mistake! My concentration level was higher and I thoroughly enjoyed the race. That should be why we ask for better map clarity, which can/may be achieved by larger scales.

As far as BOC is concerned.... having entered, I am going to enjoy myself. I will accept that Events Committee and Map Group have made the right decision, and just get on and try to beat the planner. Afterwards I will consider how I have done, and then decide if 1:7500 would have made the experience better.

[NeilC]

and somebody told me on here that bof arent ridiculous

That was probably me. Experienced people make decisions with the best of intentions, just because some people think that they are wrong doesn't mean that they are. Like most of us I haven't seen the BOC map but I know that the recent decision was made by people with the maps in front of them.

A few years ago "BOF" made the decision to introduce first an elite middle race and then a sprint into the JK. People objected to both of these. In a few weeks time 1500 of you will sprint round Surrey University and both the men's elite sprint and middle races are oversubscribed - how ridiculous is that?

[SJC]

I will accept that Events Committee and Map Group have made the right decision

At the moment I don't. As greywolf points out, most of what is in the statement discusses is completely irrelevant or illogical, and it still hasn't answered the question as to why, if the Elite need a 1:10,000 map to make it readable, the old people aren't getting a 1:7,500 version.

Afterwards I will consider how I have done, and then decide if 1:7500 would have made the experience better.

So spend several hundred pounds on travelling to Scotland for the weekend, to an event which in all probability isn't going to be as good as it could be ?
This isn't how the sport should be run.

[greywolf]

For a start.... we haven't seen the map! Please moderate the criticism, particularly the language used.

A) I have seen the map, and run on it many times
B) That was the moderate version

[eddie]

is it not a new map? therefore how have you run on it?

[awk]

I will accept that Events Committee and Map Group have made the right decision, and just get on and try to beat the planner. Afterwards I will consider how I have done, and then decide if 1:7500 would have made the experience better.

Fine for you RJ, but on what basis is this a 'right' decision? Going on the information that is now on the website, as greywolf and sjc both highlight, this has all the hallmarks of a 'wrong' decision. The statement is riddled with inconsistencies and illogicalities, and screams out that it is simply a committee backing up one of its groups without thought to the people that really matter, the competitors. Meanwhile, people who have actually used the map (rather than look at it in a brightly lit committee room) say that it needs a 1:7500 scale.....

By the time I get back from Culbin, I will have expended several hundred pounds and it will be too late to make the experience better. The decision has to be right NOW. I only hope it is, but on the information available, I don't have your confidence that it is.

people make decisions with the best of intentions

and the road to hell is paved with them.

[Gnitworp]

I've got a far point without spectacles or lens at about 1 foot. I can read the Lord's Prayer on a pinhead at that distance. With luck I'll be the only M60 that can read the map

[EddieH]

Wow Gnitworp, but with that reading ability, can you see the dunes?

[greywolf]

is it not a new map? therefore how have you run on it?

...well someone has to test run the courses

And I should make it clear for anyone swithering about coming: the area is fantastic, way better than the 6-day bit, the map is a great piece of work, and the course are brilliant. (and this applies to W65L just as much as M21E).
BUT I am an old man with old eyes (although I suspect still swifter than most of those on MG ) so having spent quite a few hours trying to read this necessarily very complex map on the move, I know that a lot of people would benefit from the enlarged scale, which is why I am so annoyed with this decision.

But you should come anyway, just buy a more powerful magnifier!

[EddieH]

It sounds as though I'd better buy one and start getting used to using it as my contacts can no longer keep up with my eye deterioration.

[eddie]

is it not a new map? therefore how have you run on it?

...well someone has to test run the courses

my apologies. good to see that you are still selling it.

[LostAgain]

Have I understood this thread correctly?

The mapper recommends a larger magnification for the older / younger competitors and the person test running the courses recommends a larger magnification for the older / younger runners?

Yet the overviewing committee only feel it necessary to give the elites/20-40 a larger scale than normal?

Does look a little absurd.

Looking forward to reading Axel and Graemes comments!