Cutting it too fine?

[RJ]

Purchasing a colour laser printer (A4) to print all the club maps..... that's an easy bit!

Taking the printer to an event and running it with a generator..... that's an easy bit!

Having all the course/map files on a laptop at the event.... that's an easy bit!

Printing 80% of the maps in the days before the event.... that's an easy bit!

Keeping an eye on the EOD numbers and knowing when to start printing extra maps.... that's an easy bit!

Having the 'balls' to get on and do it.... yep, that's the hard bit!!

[SeanC]

Personal experiencing of organising is that all the little "easy" extras add up to a hard job, and we're always saying on this forum that we need to make the organisers life easier. IMHO asking the organiser to organise printing on the day is one more unnecessary extra - easier to print enough off so long as its 99% certain there's enough maps - and for the rest of us to pay the cost of redundant maps.

Having said that, could printing on the day be outsourced to some enterprising individual with the kit in the boot of the car? Mc RJ's Emergency Printing Ltd ready to bail out organisers with the foresight to put a copy of the map on a pen drive?

Also can you print on waterproof paper using a laser printer?

[roadrunner]

As someone who often EODs, factors that influence whether we go to a particular event can include weather, location of adjacent events, convenience of the event (eg bussing, long walks to starts), and colour coded courses offered.

I wouldn't argue with those being important factors, but apart from the weather, surely you know all the rest well in advance.

One thing I don't think anyone has mentioned yet is that, in these days of overprinted maps, it's not just a case of knowing how many to print in total, but how many for each course. I'm sure that, at colour-coded events, people might choose between green and blue, or blue and brown, on the day on the basis of how long they are, what the weather's like, etc, which adds to the problems of prediction.

[Familytaxi driver]

My problem as someone new to orienteering (around 8 events so far) is I'm transporting juniors in the family to events but I am running orange courses at the moment. Therefore I cannot enter in advance.

I went to a regional event on Sunday. Son was pre entered. I had to queue for ages and then was told there were no orange course maps left. I was offered a yellow (too easy!) or a harder course -xtra cost for a badge course and would be technichally too difficult and therefore frustrating to say the least.

I asked if they were recyling maps and eventually was offered to wait for one to come back in. This wasn't offered to me I had to suggest it. After waiting another 20 mins or so a map for the correct course came back in. I then got a run but still no SI Card I'd have had to join a queue of around 7 people waiting for hired dibbers to come back in. So I timed myself and was just relieved to run the course I wanted after over 1 hrs travel, all the waiting around and paying car parking.
My point is that I was fairly cheesed off by all the "hassle" and if I was not commited by going with the family may well have been put off by the whole experience.

Yes It was a larger regional event but as I want to improve (and get onto courses I can pre enter ) I'm going to go to events I see that are fairly near. Other adult beginners must have the same problem. If registration people could communicate with download (in this case both sharing the same tent!) then surely some maps for popular courses could have been collected in for re-using without a relative newcomer to the game having to suggest it as an option?

Why not pre entry for colour coded at the bigger events? I for one would be happy to pre enter and pay up front as we plan the events we're travelling to anyway.

[Barny of Blandford]

One or two problems that I can see
Be very carefull if trying to print plastic paper using laser printers - it will wreck many of them - plastic melts on the drum
We all expect plastic at events these days - much more expensive - 30p+ for A4 and 60p+ for A3
Many maps are A3 - we could print just the section showing the course and not a whole map to get round that problem
Numbers can vary at an event from year to year and event to event - a regional that one year only gets 280 and then the next year gets over 500 for no apparent reason - a schools event that can vary from 80 to nearly 200 - orienteers are very fickle and not good at pre-entering events
Extra maps - particularly in plastic - reduce profit margins - and just because you are running a large event does not mean that it will be a profitable event as we found out recently at one of our WIM events (the army land use fee wiped out all the profit)
We could take out a laser printer to the events but I think I would probably end up with a hernia - it is bad enough having to take the generator!
Also my laser printer (Minolta 2400W) cannot give as good a quality as a plastic map printed professionally locally and would not be on plastic

[RJ]

In the days of master maps there were none of these problems. So, if we are going to make progress then we definitely have to put our minds to the task!! The sport is seeing an increase in participation. We must meet their needs, and if they become unpredictable in the requirements they impose on an event, then we better start sorting it if we are going to have a bright future.

The plastic map has a little way to go yet before we find a product that will meet all our needs, particularly its use in the desk top lasers. The fuser temperature is too high. But future laser printers may solve that problem.

However, I am not convinced by the plastic map. Paper and a plastic bag will do for the moment. Printing on the day is a REAL solution to the various problems of EOD. Develop that. The clubs that look after the EOD well will reap the benefit.

[graeme]

I am running orange courses at the moment. Therefore I cannot enter in advance.

Why not pre entry for colour coded at the bigger events? I for one would be happy to pre enter and pay up front as we plan the events we're travelling to anyway.

With luck the event review will go through, restrictions on who can do what will go and you'll be able to pre-enter a course appropriate to your limited experience.

Except, by then you'll be capable of doing full on technical courses no problem

As a parent-split starter, I get more than my share of "no maps left - please recycle". Can't say it bothers me much, though with waterproof recycling I did have parts of my course pre-rubbed-off for me recently .

[Familytaxi driver]

[With luck the event review will go through, restrictions on who can do what will go and you'll be able to pre-enter a course appropriate to your limited experience.

Except, by then you'll be capable of doing full on technical courses no problem

Will that mean I as a W45 can pre enter a JW3 for example? That would make life a lot easier! Though I can see the results tables may become complicated!

But for a regional event where orange is that same course as one of the age class courses pre entry on a colour course would help planning the travel - because otherwise in future I'll be arriving for 9.50am to make sure of my map. I don't think the rest of the family will be too keen at getting up 30-40 mins earlier than they would need to otherwise - but tough.

No problem with a recyled map, problem if faced with no map and no run. As mentioned earlier new people coming along expect some level of "customer care."

BTW son had reassured me that I'd get a run somehow as "orienteers are nice like that"

[Wayward-O]

Maybe one solution would be for pre-entered competitors to receive offset printed maps on waterproof paper, whilst EOD competitors receive lazer printed maps in plastic bags.

Will that mean I as a W45 can pre enter a JW3 for example? That would make life a lot easier! Though I can see the results tables may become complicated!

If the current proposals for the restructuring of events are accepted, then all events below National will use a form of colour-coded ageless courses.

[Simple Soul]

Will that mean I as a W45 can pre enter a JW3 for example? That would make life a lot easier! Though I can see the results tables may become complicated

It seems you are entering a JM3/JW3 course anyway unless there is some strange course arrangement. I would have thought that any organiser would be delighted to have you pre-enter as it is one less variable for the day. The question is how to manage the Entry. It may be difficult with an on-line entry system, but surely a manual entry could show you as doing the Orange Course at the colour coded rate, your name come up on the start list with a predetermined start time, with results showing you as an Orange course competitor. Should not be complicated at all.

[Familytaxi driver]

Yes I am doing JM/JW3. I'll try pre-entry (not on line!) and see if the system can cope.

Thanks for that suggestion Simple Soul.

[D,J,J&Ms Dad]

The plastic map has a little way to go yet before we find a product that will meet all our needs, particularly its use in the desk top lasers. The fuser temperature is too high. But future laser printers may solve that problem.

Although we use Pretex coated for commercial map printing (the smooth variety) which is not suitable for most laser printers, the Pretex uncoated material works in normal laser printers. This is unfortunately the rougher material that many people had an issue with in the early days of water resistant maps as it retains mud and blood too easily. It would however be a good option for printing on the day if water resistant material were a priority. If anyone would like to try a few sheets in their own laser printer then email me and I'll send some out. alan (at) print5.co.uk