Is tiredness all in the mind?

[marcus_weatherburn]

Just watched a programme on this and thought it was quite a good topic. Is being tired a pysical or mental thing. Is it all in the mind?

[Kitch]

maybe it depends on whether you believe existence is all in the mind....

I didn't see the programme and you really haven't primed the topic by telling us what the arguments / evidence were.

Tim Noakes discusses various theories around fatigue and its source in his "running bible" The Lore of Running.
I don't follow all the theories and evidence, perhaps partly because much of it seems somewhat counter-intuitive / counter to experience.

He discusses various theories that the mind is the source of tiredness, it pre-emptively tells you you are tired as a way of slowing you down to prevent exhaustion and physical damage. But where does the mind get the information to tell you you are tired ? from what is going on physically ?
It seems to me no different to pain in that respect (e.g. a cut finger)

Part of the argument also seems to be that feeling tired doesn't stop you from continuing to exercise - so feeling tired must be a mental thing.
But continuing to exercise does exhaust and damage you - I know, I just ran a marathon - very real muscle damage, which arises through the mind ignoring the physical signals not from the mind telling me I'm tired so stop. You run 10km of a marathon when you're muscles are exhausted - its mind over matter, refusal to admit the tiredness and pain - I have other experiences of the dramatic effects of the mind going the other way:
Leading a race, exhausted, being slowly hauled in by the next runner, forcing myself to keep going, at the point of being caught and passed I experienced an instant impact: complete exhaustion, severe muscular pain, dramatic slowing. To me that was mind blocking fatigue, followed by mind admitting fatigue, triggered by the reality "you are beaten there is no point in continuing with this"
Note that Paula Ratcliffe dropped out of the Athens marathon when she dropped from 3rd to 4th - from medal to nothing

In his section on marathons Noakes puts forward evidence that taking energy during a race contributes significantly to preventing exhaustion by maintaining blood sugar level, but also that blood sugar levels contribute little to exercise rates (exercise rate being primarily a function of muscle glycogen (sugar) levels). The conclusion from these strands of evidence is that maintained blood sugar, maintains the mind's ability to continue the focus on exercise, the ability to block tiredness.
Agian to me this says that the mind mediates / modulates physical tiredness.

So my view: No
tiredness is not all in the mind
sometimes
not tiredness is all in the mind

And also there is the basic stupidity of any all or nothing statement in relation to any biological system.

[Mrs H]

Yes i agree (I think!) Tiredness is real but the ability to 'stave it off' comes from the mind controlling certain physical strategies. but ultimately - either the situation is releaved (someone passing you in a race - or just finishing the task) or if not the individual will eventually become physically over whelmed one way or another (sleep, collapse, death?). I don't think you can "stave off" exhaustion

[harry]

I guess the sugar you take on can at least be "glycogen sparing" and keep your exercise rate up for longer as well as brain effects. Anyway looks like you carried on anyway after Lemma went past you!
Andrew KITCHIN 1966 Royaume Uni 380 3:04:06
and it seems you weren't the only Orienteer in Marrakech that day:-
In the "semi-marathon"
Anders TILTNES 1984 Suède 3094 1:13:58

Hey means you can have another go - London 2009 you have the "good for age" time (Men 41-59 sub 3:15) so you get a guaranteed entry

[Kitch]

They seem to be saying that the effect of maintaining blood sugar far outstrips any possible direct physical contribution (i.e. the amount of sugar consumed in maintaining blood sugar levels couldn't possibly account for the extension in exercise if that amount of sugar was just being burnt by the muscles)

Lemma had a head start

London 2009 is the plan with Geneva in September as an interim

I claim a 13 second victory over Tiltnes at half way

[harry]

You didn't quite manage negative splits then..
Niiice though & good luck with Geneva & London, you must have enjoyed it! I wait at least 6 more years before my marathon debut