lactate threshold - sport specific?

[greywolf]

A technical question for all the coaching gurus out there: to what extent, if any, is the lactate threshold sport specific?

If I remember correctly, interval training (and/or fartlek) - i.e. going repeatedly past the threshold, then having a partial recovery etc. - trains the body to be more efficient at removing lactic acid from the sytem, thus raising the threshold. So does it make much difference which precise muscle groups you're using and how? i.e. whether you do this by running, cycling or on a rowing machine?

Over the last 6 months i've started running occasionally mid-week, between events, but basically I'm still desparately unfit and need to do some proper training. Unfortunately my lower legs are too old and decrepit to cope with much in the way of impact - 2 hours running (in the forest) a week seems like the maximum i can manage. However, I could supplement that with some time on the bike or the erg, neither of which trash my knees and ankles in the same way. Obviously i have to go play in the forest for technical training, but would it make more sense to do steady & faster tempo training on foot and intervals on the bike/erg, or the other way around?

I know that in an ideal world i would run twice a day every day - but for now i'm happy to be running at all..just wish i could go a bit quicker....

[Adventure Racer]

I'm not a sports scientist, and given there are some on here I hope I don't get this wrong, but given I am a self-coached multi-sport athlete (more sports than some might realise!) I'll have a stab.

The answer to the question you ask is yes - to some extent the lactate threshold is sports specific - typically it will be different (generally lower) for cycling than for running. However you're asking the wrong question - the correct one being whether cross training will help you get fitter and therefore faster at running. The answer to that is also yes at the level of exercise you're doing. Note that you don't need to do interval training to get faster, and from the amount it sounds like you're doing, you may well be better off not doing so at least initially, but simply concentrating on spending time steady training. If you do intervals it makes more sense to do those running and save the steady sessions for the bike/erg, since running intervals will also improve your running efficiency (though if the bike is an indoor trainer and by ergo you mean a rowing ergo, I'm not sure how long a steady session I'd fancy doing on those!)

[Kitch]

"Is the lactate threshold sport specific ?"- I'm not sure that is a very useful question. (see brief lesson in lactate below)

I would not say that the sort of long rep intervals most orienteers (endurance runners) do - aim primarily to improve lactate clearance - rather they aim to increase ability to use oxygen and avoid producing lactate in the first place.
Classic long intervals improve VO2max i.e. the capacity to use oxygen for exercise rather than revert to anaerobic - latctae producing - exercise. This improvement occurs through increased vascularisation of lungs and muscles and increases in aerobic mitochondria (the little bitties that release energy) of the main muscle groups involved in the exercise.

That said - hard run intervals will contribute to improved lactate clearance.
some interval session will work on lactate clearance

I agree with AR - If you are only running occasionally midweek then it shouldn't be interval training, I'd say intervals should only come in if you are running a regular 5 times a week, and if you know your legs can't take it then definitely don't run intervals.
If you are only training a few times a week then your first priority is not specificity but more regular sessions
(though if you are getting 2 hrs in the forest thats a good chunk of specific)
Can you gain from reps on an ergo machine - of course.
I know a certain orienteer who made the World Champs off cycle-ergo training from January to May - (hard as nails).
It will train your general fitness, your heart and lung muscles, lung capacity, oxygen transport, cooling mechanisms.
A cycle-erg will give you pretty good muscle specificity, particularly quad strength for running - you can use it to improve VO2 max and with the right reps you could use it fro lactate clearance.

don't try and push too high a gear.
It takes several sessions on a bike-erg to get the skill right if you are doing high speed reps - at first you bounce around at high speeds and its quite annoying and frustrating, after a few weeks you get the skill and can spin away much more smoothly.
Try a spinning class - sweaty but fun.

------------------------
Lactae 101
lactate is generated by energy release in the absence of oxygen -its a stop gap mechanism, allowing the body to function if the required amount of oxygen is not immediately available. LActate builds up in the absence of oxygen but cannot be allowed to build up too much as it creates poisinous acidity in the body. Lactate can be cleared form the body when sufficient oxygen becomes available - i.e. once our heart gets beating, and our lungs get breathing. The amount of oxgen needed to clear out lactate is refered to as the oxygen debt - the oxygen owed to the body (plus interest) for the energy used when not enough oxygen was available.

We all generate lactate all of the time.
lactate is constantly generated and cleared. The liver is a major contributor to clearance of lactate. At rest the generation and clearance are equal and a constant background concentration of something around of 1 mmo/litre of blood is maintained.

When we start exercise we start to generate more lactate (sudden effort without extra oxygen immediately avaialble), blood lactate concentration rises. As we warm up, circulation opens up, breathing increases and the right amount of oxygen makes it to our muscles and liver, we generate less lactate and then clear the accumulated lactate (oxgen debt is cleared) once this has happened we experience "the second wind" that point some 5 or 10 minutes into exercise where you settle in to a comfortable effort.

Once we have reached this point blood lactate is back at 1 mmol/l - enough oxgen is reaching the muscles for the required energy release and lactate is stable at a baseline.
This baseline equilibrium can exist through a range of exercise intensities.

Then a level of exercise is reached at which the oxygen supply to the exercising muscles is insufficient and blood lactate is again seen to rise.
What happens now is that the liver and other non-exercising (or submaximally exercising) muscles come to the aid of the exercising and lactate producing muscles by clearing the additional lactate circulating in the blood. In this situation the blood lactate lvel rises to a new stable level 2 mmol/l for example. As exercise increases more supprt is recruited to clear excess lactate and higher, yet stable, levels of lactate are seen.
Until
a point is reached where lactate clearance is at maximum capacity, lactate cocentration reaches its maximum stable level.
above this point any increase in exercise intensity will produce lactate that cannot be removed and the blood lactate spirals out of control leading to rapid exhaustion.
This is the classic Lactate Threshold - it used to be considered to occur at 4 mmol/l, but is in fact highly variable across individuals.

end of tutorial
-------------------------------

To really work on lactate clearance you need to work on those other muscle groups - whilst in oxygen debt ...
Did you ever run a hard interval and with 200m to go feel your arms start to burn with a wash of lactate ?
What if your arm muscles were better at clearing lactate ? - then you'd have more capacity to generate lactate from your legs.
In the day there was a serious circuits session in Edinburgh that worked on this kind of thing - plenty of intense leg work generating big pulses of lactate, interspersed with arm and abdominal work - not only strengthening those muscles but working them in a sea of lactate.

[Supersaint]

Top advice from Kitch, cheers. At present i'm unable to run so have basically been doing the same sessions i would normally have done running, but on a bike e.g. 3 steady 1 hour sessions, 2 long (2hr+) session, plus 2 interval type sessions. Although it is not specific to orienteering, the CV system gets a good workout similar to that which i would normally have done. Many top athletes complement their running training with a bit of cycling as it's a non-impact exercise, but the muscles used also help your running, particularly on the hills.

[Adventure Racer]

A couple of years ago I spent a whole summer doing almost no running training - averaged about 1 training run a month, but was also running in races/events about once every couple of weeks. Instead spent a lot of time rollerskiing, which seemed to do my running fitness no harm at all (but didn't stress the achilles I'd injured) - obviously not an option for many!

[Harley]

Excellent advice - thanks particularly to Kitch - to which I can only add my unscientific agreement.

When I started running as a 30-odd year old, I hadn't run for over 15 years but found it very easy to run at a decent pace, especially uphill, and it wasnt long before I had trained my legs to keep it up for an hour or more. However, what I had been doing before then was a prodigious amount of cycling (20-30 hrs a week of road races, timetrials, training bashes and distances so looooong they make ones toes curl) with a couple of really hard circuit traing sessions thrown in each week. I'm sure this blessed me with well tuned cardiovascular system just ready to take on the rigours of a new sport.

In fact, since I stopped the cycling training and concentrated on the running, my overall level of fitness (and running ability) has plummeted, most notably because of repeated injuries which prevent me from maintaining my desired training load - also possibly because I'm 15 years older and too much of a wuss to get back out on the bike for some 'serious' training. Consequently, I find these days that my best 'runs' occur after I have had a lay-off and having been 'forced' into engaging in more cross-training. I'm sure Kitch will tell me there is another reason for this, possibly psychological?

So, is cross-training the answer to our prayers? Should we be paring our running back to a minimum that is relevant to the distances/times we wish to run - and thus avoid many injuries which often blight our season?

[greywolf]

Excellent, thank you everyone, & especially Kitch, I think I understand a bit better now...

5 running sessions a week seems very unlikely - found it hard to manage that 25 years ago - so I think for now i will add some steady work cross-training, if only to keep my waistline from expanding too much, and rather than do formal intervals just do some fartlek when i'm in the forest - as much for the joy of running (comparatively) quickly once in a while as anything else...

Yes AR i meant a rowing erg - nothing gives you that all-body lactate feeling better - i have in the distant past done 1 hour sessions, but that's akin to a DIY lobotomy, so i think 30 mins or at a push 10k is the upper limit. The trick is to drown out the sound of the machine with "amplified music wholly or predominantly characterised by the emission of a succession of repetitive beats" as the 1994 Criminal Justice and Public Order Act would phrase it... Chemical Brothers make the best erg music!

[DM]

Interesting and useful info.

Regarding long sessions on the bike, sitting in the garage, can anyone suggest a solution to the problem of hands going numb after about 1 h? Is it purely the position I sit in (too much weight on the hands) or is it to do with cushioning on the handlebars?

I would like to use the local gym (rower and cross trainer) more but they have imposed a £20 admin fee to sign a 1 year contract, even for users who have been going for years, apparently to cover the cost of collecting details they already have.