No Show at Major event

[Tatty]

I was a bit miffed to discover that SARUM did not travel up to the Yvette Baker Trophy Final having won our SCOA heat at Queen Elizabeth country Park in September. SOC finished second, but were denied the chance to go which they would have done willingly. What was the point ofSARUM competing in the Regional heat if they had not intended to go to the Final? It has happened to our club before when BOK won a heat of the CSC, and then sent just 4 competitors to the Final. I'm interested to find out why they weren't able to attend. We were denied the opportunity a team a second way as SARUM had finished in the top 3 the previous year, but as we only had 8 competitors so were considered an uncomplete team and so were not allowed to attend. A missed opportunity for our up and coming, very keen , but small core of youngsters.

[HOCOLITE]

They weren't the only ones were they? The numbers seemed particularly low. Our club finished 3rd in the heat behind teams coming 1st and 4th in final. I suspect as it was close in the heat and a number of juniors were missing we could have done fairly well. However that is the price you pay for being in the W Mids. It's the same with the CSC.

[SYO Member]

Tatty, however miffed you may be, I hope you have already given SARUM the opportunity via email or phone to explain privately why they didn't attend before opening it up to public scrutiny on Nopesport.

[ifor]

As one of the 4 BOKs mentioned at the CSC final example there is no excuse I was embaraced at the time hence the big effort to get to the event however bad the nettles turned out to be.... The dates and locations for the finals of these events are knowen in advance if people can't go to the final then the team should not enter the competition competitivly. If things change close and a full team can not be taken to the finals than the best that can be mustered should be taken.

Ifor

[The Loofa]

As our team was given start times 14 mins apart we assumed 14 teams qualified. But only 11 ran. So perhaps there are 2 other no-shows in addition to SARUM? Any ideas who? - if any? and why?

[Jon Brooke]

Sounds like a perfectly reasonable topic for public discussion to me.

[seabird]

Whoops posted this in the wrong discussion (YBT thread)

There was a guiding principle in the Early Years of the YBT about the final's location, which was an attempt to avoid this situation. This was that the final should be in an area within or very close to that bounded by the M62, A1,M4,M5 and M6.

N of Scunthorpe was certainly pushing this. Sandringham (2008) and Sussex (2009) even more so. It is likely that these will lead to even more no shows.

[Mrs H]

Sounds like a perfectly reasonable topic for public discussion to me.

I absolutely agree - it is a matter of public interest. I suspect the answer will just be plain simple parental overload. what with British Schools, selection races etc all jammed in - let alone if you have events to organise in the mentime -and god forbid any other calls on your time outside the sport.

I for one was quite releived we didn't make it to the final this year.

BTW Jon - do you never look at your private messages? It's a bit late now anyway.

[NeilC]

I personally don't think that SARUM should have been publically accused of entering the heat knowing that they had no intention of going to the final. The facts just aren't there to support that. Circumstances could have changed between heat and final.

Yes some clubs qualify for CSC and YBT but then don't turn up to the final for whatever reason(s). Perhaps an incentive to turn up could be a ban on entering the following year's competition if no reasonable effort is made by a qualifying team to go to the final.

And for those that haven't seen it the draw for next year's CSC is at
http://www.pgopage.btinternet.co.uk/index.htm
Final in Sutton Park?

[Kitch]

Or more simply

after the qualifying heat if Sarum (or whoever) decide not to go then the region's place at the final (assume it works on regions) should go to the next placed team.

[Snail]

The YBT is a bit odd, in that it isn't actually a regional competition. Although there is usually one heat organised by each region, clubs are free to enter whichever first round event they prefer.

This year SARUM (who I think are a SWOA club) decided to compete in the SCOA-hosted heat against SOC and TVOC, presumably because it was nearer or more convenient, rather than in the SWOA-hosted heat against BOK / QO / WIM . (One of the latter 3 would appear to be one of the other "missing" clubs at the final.)

This does seem to permit clubs to seek out the "easiest" heat if they want to. Eg if SO and SN - who only narrowly lost out to SLOW in the SEOA heat - had instead travelled a further 20 miles (a few weeks earlier) to the SCOA heat, they would both have been likely to finish ahead of SOC and one of them would have qualified for the final in addition to SARUM.

[mharky]

Why don't they just make it a straight out final? Seriously, why?

[awk]

When I first set up the junior inter-club match (as it then was), it was effectively a final: simply a one-off match held at a local colour coded. Although mainly YHOA clubs came, we also saw clubs from other associations there, including MEROC, PFO and WCH. It then became too big, so we split off into qualifying matches. I wanted to keep the competition as flexible as possible, so came up with the idea of clubs being able to choose their match - very rarely if ever has a club chosen one based on easier competition; mostly, they've been chosen for geographical proximity or convenient date (indeed, one year Aire chose a match that was tougher competition!).

I suspect that a one-off match would generate one of two scenarios: so big that numbers from each club are restricted or the event gets unmanageable, or only the bigger clubs going. Neither appeal. But could be very wrong, so maybe the one-off match is worth a try? Or, indeed, clubs could be seeded into different one-off matches depending on result from previous year to create divisional winners and more competitive matches.

I am disappointed that the final has become so far flung in recent years: in earlier years we kept it fairly tight geographically. I appreciate that this is probably down to willingness to host, but given that the previous EA final was pushing it, to go to Sandringham in December is to my mind just not on, it being even further for most clubs than Scunthorpe, which was marginal. As Chris says, there was a guiding principle which seems to have got lost. But then, I also believe that the rules and maybe even the format should have moved on as well - they've got rather stuck in the past in recent times (comes of being controlled by a committee??).

[mharky]

I really don't have time or motivation to do the reasearch, but it would be interesting to see what the combined participation for all the qualification rounds put together has actually been for the last few years. Only with that info can you really say whether a straight off final would be "too big".

It's easier to get people to go to one race than to two. It would make it a much bigger and better event. Inclusivity is important.

[T5]

There was a guiding principle in the Early Years of the YBT about the final's location, which was an attempt to avoid this situation. This was that the final should be in an area within or very close to that bounded by the M62, A1,M4,M5 and M6.

N of Scunthorpe was certainly pushing this. Sandringham (2008) and Sussex (2009) even more so. It is likely that these will lead to even more no shows.

Is North of Scunthorpe really "pushing this" too far - 25miles to the M62 and 30miles the A1? Maybe the "guiding principles" need clarifying, so clubs can be sure not to volunteer to host such events if they don't fall within the 'accepted boundaries'.

Many previous threads have gone on about that lack of clubs being prepared to host "major" events and here we are cutting out clubs from Scotland, Wales, East Anglia, most of Yorkshire and the North. Do we want to have the event in Sutton Park every year....?