Simplification

[EddieH]

It sounds as though it has to go straight in the diary just as soon as the weekend is clarified.

[Mrs H]

Well it's in the BOF fixture list for 30th-31st which would be great for us as I don't think we can get back from norway in time for the previous weekend - and registered as Oban - so i'm guessing Mull - will we be able to get the H van on the boat?

[Jon Brooke]

Not sure about Uist but I'd love to do an event on this bit of South Harris.

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x ... &ay=889970

[Foreman]

OK - back to original post. Imagine you are staring at a blank sheet of paper and are starting this sport from scratch. How would you go about it without having umpteen different courses, age classes and expecting volunteers to give days ( weeks? ) of their time running an event?
Something to ponder during long winter nights...................................

[graeme]

Kerrara is nice, but not very technical. Better for MTBO?

...this bit of South Harris...

You like wading through heather then?

How would you go about it without having umpteen different courses, age classes and expecting volunteers to give days ( weeks? )

I'd start by reading this thread [url] viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8335
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[greywolf]

Not sure about Uist but I'd love to do an event on this bit of South Harris.

It looks promising...but not so special when you get there. And Sunday competition might be a bit of a deal-breaker with the local grazings committee....

[Jon Brooke]

I have been there - it's fantastic, a bit boggy but very little heather and lots of exposed rock - quite runnable

[SIman]

Back to the original post.
At local events we let people start when they are ready to go. At WOC there is a strict start list. Where should we draw the line between these two extremes.
It would reduce the organiser's workload if start times weren't allocated at all at events such as the Scottish Night Champs and at the Scottish O League regional events - but would runners manipulate start times? complain at unfairness of others? all wait until the last moment?

[EddieH]

I'd love a 6-day in the Western Isles - but I think it unlikely!

[graeme]

It would reduce the organiser's workload if start times weren't allocated at all at events such as the Scottish Night Champs and at the Scottish O League regional events - but would runners manipulate start times? complain at unfairness of others? all wait until the last moment?

If we wanted to do those things, we could by entering on the day.

But I suspect abandoning startlists just transfers work from allocating times to sorting out people at the start.

[Jon Brooke]

Just did the southern night champs on Saturday. No alloted starts. Turned up, went to start, started. Great from my competitors point of view and I'm sure from the organisers' also, but maybe only because of the relatively small number of competitors. Also there weren't that many courses with quite a lot of classes sharing - again didn't seem much of a problem to me.

I do think that the discussion within orienteering about simplification (and maybe also novelty, fun, casualness) versus standards (also fairness, meeting expectations etc) is a bit like the discussion in the tory party about Europe, it just goes round and round. I happen to think the answer (if there is such a thing) is for some of the sticklers to lighten up WRT local and novel events but to concentrate effort on a smaller number of high profile events. Hadn't even heard of it before this thread but the Purple Thistle looks great and I also enjoy mass start summer informals, Long-O etc.

Will be interesting to see how the orientator (10k mass start score O with no compass required!) goes next week.

[NeilC]

Didn't work so well at a couple of SE regional events earlier this year. In one case a group of cadets turned up at the start in the pouring rain and all wanting to run the same course. Anyone then turning up wanting to run that course had a long, cold and wet wait. A procedure that was designed to simplify caused much stress to the start team. At another the queue for the most popular course also built up to such an extent that the start official made the inappropriate decision to set these runners off at 30s intervals. The first control was a long slog up a hill and a train soon formed.

[SJC]

At another the queue for the most popular course also built up to such an extent that the start official made the inappropriate decision to set these runners off at 30s intervals.

You may have thought it inappropriate. However I am sure that many of the people in the queue to start thought it entirely the right thing to do. Standing around getting cold isn't much fun.

[NeilC]

8.1.1 At Level 3 events and above no competitor shall be timed to start within one minute of
another competitor on the same course, with the exception of:
· mass start events such as relays;
· chasing start events, where start times are determined by previous results.

So many of the problems we see at events are due to people deciding that the rules don't matter (or not knowing the rules in the first place) and it would be a better race if different controls were put in adjacent depressions, or that the yellow course would be better if it had route choice etc etc.

[SJC]

At Level 3 events and above no competitor shall be timed to start within one minute of
another competitor on the same course

So back to having pre-allocated start times then, and the conclusion that what appears to be simplification in one area causes problems somewhere else.