Fixtures Genius

[distracted]

I'm of the opinion that only holding the event every X years won't work in improving attendance. As an example - the World Champs is now yearly rather than biennial, judging by those who run I don't think you could say it has been devalued by this change.

Rather than hold the Nights less regularly, perhaps it would better to combine age-classes to improve competition, maybe like those classes at the British Sprint or Middle. Although with a seemingly increasing amount of local night events, maybe more people will be tempted to go to the British Nights; with few night events there'll be fewer people willing to buy the necessary kit as they will feel they aren't getting their monies worth.

[graeme]

I'm of the opinion that only holding the event every X years won't work in improving attendance. As an example - the World Champs is now yearly rather than biennial, judging by those who run I don't think you could say it has been devalued by this change.

But judging by how mach attention people pay to it, it has been. Most people have no idea who the world champion is e.g. a month after WOC I had a confusing conversation with a GB team selector praising the men for retaining their titles! When it was less frequent one could keep up. I'd also say that annual World Champs has majorly devalued the World Cup - even athletes on the fringe of the squad getting their fisrt selection can't be a***ed to go.

(but I do agree with you about BNC)

(the still relatively poorly attended) British Sprints and Middles

Huh? these are currently elite-only Championships and the entry is *bigger* than the elite entry at BEOC.

[Guest88]

Yes well I have now checked as to how many people went to both the Scottish Night Champs 2007 (Tinto), and the British Night Champs 2007 (NOR), despite them being 9 months apart, and I believe that there were only 2 who went to both, so I believe that many of the people posting on this thread seem to have an idea in their mind of how things ought to be, which may be very principled and idealistic, but bears no relation to the reality of how things actually are. Quite a few of the people posting don't actually seem to have been to either event.

I believe that there are too many orienteering events being organised, and the available pool of helpers and participants is spread too thinly across them.

I see it as rather like pruning an overgrown tree. You need to prune back the dead bits (scale back the events that aren't functioning properly), to allow whats rest of the "orienteering events" tree, and new innovations such as the cities cup to grow anew and thrive. This is particularly relevant when the number of people doing the sport has decreased.

Personally I actually like night orienteering, so an alternative to my previous suggestion would be to combine the British Nights with the British Middles (or some other compelling event like the Oxford City Race) on a weekend in November or January. I would then have the British Sprints merged with the JK weekend. Maybe some of the helper time freed up from pruning excess events (see above), could be used to organise lift schemes / buses / hall floor accommodation from major conurbations to the British Nights weekend, so that more people might actually start going to it.

[RJ]

I believe that there are too many orienteering events being organised, and the available pool of helpers and participants is spread too thinly across them.

Don't really agree with that analysis..... clubs that are active have healthy participation levels and available helpers.... those that are very active have plenty of support and a strong development structure. But the active clubs also need good quality competition elsewhere so that they can develop their members' competition skills.

Those clubs that are stretched should perhaps settle for one (or two) events, and do them really well. That will attract a good turnout, increase revenue and help that club to develop. I agree that regional events need a careful look at, with quality being addressed. But the answer to our problems is actually to put on far more events.... almost all of which will be informal C5s within a club's development area. Those clubs that are struggling may find that a local informal series is more rewarding in many ways.

We seem to need to argue over whether our serious, major events need to go ahead, when really the problems are all down to participation levels. In a few years participation levels will be higher..... lets hope we don't have to reinvent all those events that we have carelessly dumped. 'Competition' is a bit poor at the moment; we might just have to put up with it until numbers increase.

[Gross]

I would then have the British Sprints merged with the JK weekend. .

Then, for example, you would rule out an overseas elite entry for the JK Sprint (and JK if it becomes part of the weekend) as they would make themselves unavailable for many national championships by running in the British.

[Ed]

I think Guest88 may have an idea in their mind of how things ought to be, which may be very principled and idealistic, but bears no relation to the reality of how things actually are.

to coin a phrase.

[Guest88]

Oh well...guess we will have to go on organising british night championships that noone turns up to run some of the courses then...

[graeme]

I believe that there were only 2 who went to both.

One of whom made the decision for the clash this year...

combine the British Nights with the British Middles (or some other compelling event .

Yup. I've only been to BNC once, and only because it was the day before the JOK Chasing Sprint http://www.jok.org.uk/chasing_sprint

Graeme (SNC 2007, Yellow course, last)

[Mrs H]

I actually like Guest88's idea of grouping events to make a weekend worthwhile. We as a family have cut down drastically on big events and even medium events this autumn but are making a trip of it this weekend with Oxford, southern nights and southern champs. Will also be going up for Shuoc sprint and DVO national, (I remember going up to Northumberland one Feb for a very enjoyable British Nights and junior selection race the next day. I like his idea about transport and accommodation too. It may not make any difference to the elites but i'm sure it would appeal far more to the ordinary punters.

[Adventure Racer]

I'll third the idea of grouping rather than pruning. Like Mrs H I'm running at Oxford and the Southern Nights - almost certainly wouldn't have done the latter had it not been that I was going to Oxford. Of course the issue then is that some don't want to do more than one event in a day (personally I'd be tempted to try and fit Chasers MTBO in first as well if the start times worked ).

[IanD]

and now a suggestion to only hold M/W 16/18 night championships every four years

Not sure how much support that suggestion is getting - certainly none from me!

[IanD]

I'm running at Oxford and the Southern Nights - almost certainly wouldn't have done the latter had it not been that I was going to Oxford. Of course the issue then is that some don't want to do more than one event in a day.

Indeed, I would be running at Oxford were it not for the Southern Nights on the same day. So "grouping" has lost my custom for Oxford.

[NeilC]

And I struggle to recover from a hard night run in time for an event the next day so grouping a night championships before a day championships doesn't work for me.

Mind you a nice standard event the next day when I can run a green or blue and still get ranking points would be ideal!

P.S. Anyone wanting some last minute training for the Southern Nights come to tonight's round of the Kent Night Cup that I'm planning, almost 50 competitors already signed up and only a quid to enter.

[SeanC]

50 people! That's getting on for half the number at the midland night champs last year (just checked the results). I might be more inclined to go to a night championship event if, like the Kent events, there was an after event pub and prizegiving (which there might be for all I know...).

Also listing by BOF class seems daft when there are almost as many competitors as classes. Can the results be grouped into wider categories and the prizes accordingly (say young juniors, juniors, open, vets, super vets, grand masters?). You could also display the BOF class and any other information (headlight wattage ). I am not so vain that I will travel over 100 miles just because I have a 50% chance of winning M40 (assuming there is only a 50% chance of another M40 turning up ).