Dogs

[RS]

Actually, if I remember correctly, he was from somewhere in Yorkshire!

[DM]

This thread has strayed from the subject of dogs to people, can I bring it back to animals, cows to be precise?

Some people, especially small children are scared of cows, especially when they congregate round and eat controls on white courses (Kilnsey 2 years ago).

Adults can also be affected, I was once climbing with a now fairly well known outdoor sports journalist who took ages to cross a field (again in Yorkshire) as he wasn't sure if the big animal was a cow or a bull. He kept stopping , bending down and peering at the animals undercarriage.

[Axel]

RS,

I wouldn't have thought he was from anywhere else.

[Gnitworp]

Adults can also be affected, I was once climbing with a now fairly well known outdoor sports journalist who took ages to cross a field (again in Yorkshire) as he wasn't sure if the big animal was a cow or a bull. He kept stopping , bending down and peering at the animals undercarriage.

Don't dismiss cows as harmless.

I once jogged through the field I had habitually run through, past the usual herd of cows (definitely no bulls). However, on this occasion, as I nonchalantly passed within a few of feet of one of the cows, it suddenly charged me from behind and floored me. After what seemed like an eternity, I emerged battered and bruised from under its hooves. It seems I had passed directly between this cow and its recently born calf. Fortunately it didn't have horns.

[EddieH]

Most animals are VERY protective of their young. Getting btween mum and offspring of an animal the size of a cow is NOT wise.

[Gnitworp]

I'll vouch for that!

[Knee Deep Mud!]

Dogs
If the event says "No Dogs" then whatever the reason, don't bring a dog, and don't expect much sympathy from the organisers if you do try and turn up with your pet.

If the event says "Dogs Welcome", then bring them along. If the dogs are well behaved and under control then its the dog haters who shouldn't expect much sympathy from the organisers.

If the details don't say anything, either enquire beforehand, or simply assume the "No Dogs" rule applies.

If you do bring a dog then it needs to be under control at all times, and I believe that 'under control' means on a short lead. If its not on a short lead, it's not under control, no matter what the owners says.


Dog Owners
I've been attacked by a dog not on a lead - teeth marks in my leg and yet not even an apology from the owners who were standing about 15' away watching. I've also seen a dog not on a lead being let out of a car in the car park of the local country park, run straight across the car park and sink its teeth into a child's leg. Again with absolutely no apology from the owners. Whilst out of control dogs like these are definitely a problem, in my opinion its their owners who let them off the lead to attack people who are the real problem.

Cows
When the British was held in Norfolk a few years ago, I was charged by the bull that was wandering around in the field that the map exchange was in. Luckily it ran away first before turning and charging. Gave me those few vital seconds head start to dive over the fence before being trampled!

[Copepod]

I work several weekends a year on the ranger team of a country park in Cambridgeshire. The park has a permanent orienteering course, and is also popular with runners, walkers, families and dog walkers, plus others. The park rules (and red circle signs at all entrance points) state that dogs must be on leads everywhere in the park, except a dog run area. We have Texel sheep and Highland cattle in various fields. There is another open area just across the road, which has more extensive dog run areas, so I feel that both dog owners and those who chose to avoid out of control dogs have a fair choice. The dogs on leads rule is enforced by explanation by rangers - many times I have spotted a dog off a lead though the trees and intercepted on foot (sometimes leaping off a tractor to do so) - the vast majority of dog walkers are happy to comply with the leads rule, although a small number don't bring leads with them, which I consider inexcusable. I take the chance to explain the reasons for the restriction - in no particular order, sheep & cattle, public expectation that dogs will be on leads - in our surveys, many have commented that they like coming because their children have been bothered by dogs in other parks, runners like not being chased etc. Once when arriving to work on a bike into the cobbled courtyard, I was nearly knocked off by a bounding labrador, off its lead and out of sight of its owner who lived on the property, but not an employee. I did report the behaviour to senior staff, as I felt this was a clear case of being out of control. I'm not dog-phobic, but do like to arrive at work on the saddle and refuse to use a car instead for a 3.5 mile journey. So, this post has strayed from orienteering, but does cover a popular running training area and livestock.

[Jon Brooke]

'under control' means on a short lead. If its not on a short lead, it's not under control

So is a police dog that has been let off the lead to subdue a criminal under control, or not?

How about a sheepdog rounding up sheep?

Or a gundog retrieving a pheasant?

Or a sniffer dog looking for a bomb?

Or fox hounds... ( oops bad example )


Do you see my point though?

Actually I have to say (as a dog owner) that unnecessary use of the "dogs to be kept on leads at all times" really irritates me - on the other hand "dogs must be kept under control at all times" is fine. That way the responsible dog owner, of which there are plenty (despite the cases cited on here) can decide what constitutes under control for their own dog under the circumstances.

[Tatty]

But then, unfortunately, we still get irresponsible dog owners at events who don't keep their dogs under control resulting in frightened children and adults.

[Gross]

Actually I have to say (as a dog owner) that unnecessary use of the "dogs to be kept on leads at all times" really irritates me

Go somewhere else then.....

[Jon Brooke]

Thanks for your constructive comment.

If you'd read my earlier post in this thread, you would have seen that I totally agree that when an event says no dogs, then people shouldn't take dogs, in which case I might well decide to go somewhere else.

But as I'm actually trying to act like a grownup and promote some understanding between dog lovers and haters, I'll try again.

The key word in my last post was "unnecessary". In the case of the park mentioned by Copepod having dogs on leads most of the time seems perfectly reasonable. But I have come across countless signs when out in open country saying "dogs to be kept on leads" when that is totally over the top.

Rules that restrict the vast, sensible majority, just to keep a daft minority in check, in almost any field of endeavour seem to me to be poorly thought out rules on principle.

[Neil M35]

Rules that restrict the vast, sensible majority, just to keep a daft minority in check, in almost any field of endeavour seem to me to be poorly thought out rules on principle.

Speeding? Drink driving? Unlimited gun ownership? There shouldn't be any laws against these because most people are sensible?

I'm not particularly scared of dogs but I've been chased, bitten and generally harrassed by dogs whose owners are totally indifferent - at the 6 days a dog tried to eat my sandwich and the owner seemed to think it was amusing (I didn't - disgusting animal). Living in a big city all the decent running areas are also favourite dog walking areas and everywhere is covered in crap.

Dog owners - accept that for a large percentage of people your animals are unpleasant, filthy, annoying and potentially dangerous. Does that give you some understanding? Your dog might be fine, but I am not going to take the chance.

[Jon Brooke]

I do accept that some people think that dogs are unpleasant filthy and annoying. But as I said in my very first post there is, and can't be (IMHO) any definitive right/wrong on this one. I think that in a survey you would probably find a fairly even split on what is really a (RELATIVELY) minor set of issues.

Having rules governing Drink Driving doesn't restrict any SENSIBLE majority. The rules on Gun Ownership probably do to a slight degree - They don't work do they? And I think if you thought about it for 2 seconds that actually the rules on speeding aren't terrible well thought through either.

But maybe we could stick to discussing dogs?

[Kitch]

Any dog that has bounded snarling and snapping up to me when out running has always received a firm kick or punch for its troubles.

No owner has ever taken exception to this, rather I have received an apology and the dog a scolding.

So,
sensible owners - but not always in control of their dogs.