start squad

[Stef]

Firstly I can't understand how they can publish the squad selections when they have not even sent out the last tour reports. My daughter thought that she had done quite well on tour, even though she did have a nightmare on the classic race, however she did win the middle race.

Secondly look at my daughters results from this small selection of races post and pre tour; SINS JW5L, Individual Junior Inter Regionals W16,Scottish 6 days W16 and white Rose JW5L and then tell me she is not on par with the other 4 girls selected.

Selection of M/W15+ is based on summer tour reports,
supplemented by performance in selection races and Regional Squad reports.

None of the results you mention are from named selection races, so they aren't relevant to selection. In addition, some of them are "holiday events" which should never (IMHO) be considered for selection purposes.

Where I do agree with you (I think) is in the use of tour reports as a selection tool. I don't see how they can be objective and unbiased, or act as a measure of orienteering ability/potential, and having skimmed the BOF General Selection Policy I'm not sure this complies with it. I should add that I'm glad it wasn't done when I was a junior!

Cheers,

Patrick

Those races mentioned were just a selection of her best results. Sher performed well in the JK and all year she has been on par with all the other girls, sometimes better.

Julia Blomquist works her arse off, dont tell her to do more training people because she trains six times a week with one day off. Now you may think I'm biased coz shes my sister but i dont think there are many people out there her age who train that much.

Shes been told selections are based on tour reports, firstly thats a bit crap coz the selectors weren't on the tour all they do is read a bit of paper given by the coaches on the tour who by the way tend to dislike my sisters bubbly personality. They think she should be like some of the quiet kids who just sit there and live/talk their whole lives based on orienteering. She has a personality and thats not liked by them.

Dont worry though, shes guna make sure she kicks some ass this year so watch out for her name.....

JULIA BLOMQUIST come on!!!!

[Tom R]

Lots of people went on tour, lots of people missed out, deal with it.

[Mrs H]

My apologies Mrs H for the previous comment

Err! did I miss something while I was stuffing the marrow - unless you're refering to the red wine comment!

(it is common knowedge i enjoy red wine - and like the great St Delia "I am not and never have been a one-glass girl")

I believe wine is one of your own favourite tipples

[DIDSCO]

I hope they don't base selections on a summer tour report. Many of the people who run junior tours and coach on tours are simply volunteers with very little knowledge and experience of elite orienteering, and unfortunatly many of them don't have the right positive personality type to motivate youngsters at such a sensitive age. I was shocked a few years ago when I briefly visited a British start squad tour to Scandinavia, the lady in charge was a joke - the kids were being treated and controlled like 5 year olds and had no fun at all. I remember at the time almost writing a letter to Derek Allison to express my concerns.

[Stef]

I hope they don't base selections on a summer tour report. Many of the people who run junior tours and coach on tours are simply volunteers with very little knowledge and experience of elite orienteering, and unfortunatly many of them don't have the right positive personality type to motivate youngsters at such a sensitive age. I was shocked a few years ago when I briefly visited a British start squad tour to Scandinavia, the lady in charge was a joke - the kids were being treated and controlled like 5 year olds and had no fun at all. I remember at the time almost writing a letter to Derek Allison to express my concerns.

I can quote from an email from the selectors to my sister saying:

"Hi Julia,

The major consideration for Start Squad selection are the reports we receive from the Summer Tours. The reports will soon be sent through to your
regional squad coordinators to then give you feedback."

I agree with you about some of the people who go on these tours, to be honest Julia did have some very good people to listen too: Nick Barrable, Allan Bogle, Tessa Hill etc. But I dont think as the selectors said in the email that the MAJOR CONSIDERATION for the start squad should be summer tours.

Julia isn't bitter about it she accepts she wasnt chosen and its just aspired her to train harder than she already does. Training with my dad does her much better anyway. Those start squad weekends r bit crap really i didnt enjoy them and i dont feel i got much out of them. My success was due to my dads hard work and hard training that we did.

Just watch out world, Julias coming to get you!!

[awk]

Some excellent questions candyman, which deserve of wider discussion. Maybe this is something for the next coaching conference to debate. I'm biased towards the regional squad model, but others may not be so keen. We also need to know in non-anecdotal terms how successful the current squad model has been.

It's concerned me from the very first days that the Start Squad system is a case of putting the money before the objective: find the former then be dictated to about the latter, and this has to some extent been confirmed by your comments. I was taught to decide what you want to do, then find the money, and still believe that.

This is particularly pertinent when dealing with central and local government, who at least in the UK (some might even say just in England) change their minds at a whim, rarely show any consistency in approach, except in the monotonous regularity of policy shift, and whose interests and motives rarely if ever lie comfortably with those in the sport itself (often quite reasonably so): this latter issue has significantly affected grass roots development too. The move to increased regionalisation must be at least the third time I've seen them do that, and will merely be followed in at most a few years time by another return to centralisation (of which I think I've seen only two cycles so far!).

As for money, raising membership fees/levies etc is not the only option; that is only required if you want to 'force' clubs to support central activities, and is largely unnecessary. There is support and money available both within and outside the sport, but much of it is focused on individuals, and is much more willingly given if it's done voluntarily. Ask somebody to fund a national or even regional squad and they will jibe, even more so if taxed. Ask for support for a young individual to go on a tour or training camp or international, and there are many more opportunities (some of which do need to be worked for). Unfortunately, those sources have been under utilised in recent years with the dependence on government money, and work needs to be built up to develop those relationships again, but the possibilities are there. My own belief is that the increased reliance on central funding may have actually seen less money come into the sport, even if the visible money has increased.

[Gross]

Dont worry though, shes guna make sure she kicks some ass this year so watch out for her name.....

JULIA BLOMQUIST come on!!!!

Best answer of the entire thread... don't get selected.... don't moan... go & kick some ass:) Watch out GB WOC team in future:)

PS - Oh... by the way... I guess she's a junior so you really shouldn't mention her name in public... BOF will get p****d off as it's sure to be against this policy or that policy:)

[RJ]

Looking at the big picture from our perspective and considering the various junior training squads......

Locally we have a school association squad, our own club squad, the regional squad, and then the start squad. Each has a set of criteria for selection, each has a firm ceiling on numbers that can be involved, each has debate about inclusion of individuals from time to time, and each manages to exclude someone(!) who would like to be involved.

Various of our club members are involved in one or more of the squads, and benefit from the programmes that are offered to them. Sure, they all aspire to be able to move up to the next level.... and some of them make it and are overjoyed. But there is disappointment all along the line with others failing to make the grade. That's life! Yes, it is tough on those who have to deal with it.... but the true test of character is being able to deal with it!

It is just the way of the world. Limited resources. In good faith as a sport we do what we can at all levels. The pot is not bottomless. It isn't fair on those involved to be openly criticised.... we are an amateur sport and we can only work with what we have. Generally speaking people make the best possible contribution that they can, and should be thanked for what they offer.

Perhaps there is a need to review the overall structure of training/coaching in the sport, but I suspect there will be many models offered as solutions. And as usual we will be back to personal preference of those on the management committees (at whatever level). Personally I am not prepared to accept that the present system hasn't evolved through careful thought, that people haven't tried to get the best from what is on offer, and that if something better could be created.... it would have been!

There has been a lot of constructive criticism in this thread..... lets move forward with the positives.

[awk]

Those races mentioned were just a selection of her best results. Sher performed well in the JK and all year she has been on par with all the other girls, sometimes better.

Looking at some of the other selections, I think it's fairly reasonable to say that results even in selection races have had little bearing on the matter; rightly or wrongly it looks as if selections have been done pretty much entirely on tour reports which, as you say, we are yet to see.

Please don't tell me to take up the matter with BOF and the Start squad because I did last year and their parting shot was they thought she did not have potential to improve as an orienteer and perhaps she would be better of in another sport.

If that is true, then I can understand your frustration. That sort of comment would be the height of arrogance, as history has shown that nobody can predict at this stage who has the potential or not. However, maybe you and Julia can draw some comfort from the comments from some of the senior elite contributing here that the Start Squad is not the only route to the top. My own view is that whilst selections depend on others, results depend on yourself, and they are what really count: champions are on the record, squads are simply transient. Self-reliance has the habit of making for an even stronger athlete (which admittedly does then beg a question or two!), so maybe the most recent cull is actually a secret plan to win more medals?:wink:

[distracted]

Perhaps there is a need to review the overall structure of training/coaching in the sport, but I suspect there will be many models offered as solutions. And as usual we will be back to personal preference of those on the management committees (at whatever level). Personally I am not prepared to accept that the present system hasn't evolved through careful thought, that people haven't tried to get the best from what is on offer, and that if something better could be created.... it would have been!

There has been a lot of constructive criticism in this thread..... lets move forward with the positives.

I personally think you have hit the nail on the head with this post, and that some sort of review of where we are now and what the squads have done to influence things is necessary. Perhaps not just from one person, because this sort of thing can far too easily be tailored to what someone wants to see...

[Peter B]

I hope they don't base selections on a summer tour report. Many of the people who run junior tours and coach on tours are simply volunteers with very little knowledge and experience of elite orienteering, and unfortunatly many of them don't have the right positive personality type to motivate youngsters at such a sensitive age. I was shocked a few years ago when I briefly visited a British start squad tour to Scandinavia, the lady in charge was a joke - the kids were being treated and controlled like 5 year olds and had no fun at all. I remember at the time almost writing a letter to Derek Allison to express my concerns.

Yes, they could base them on selection race results and regional reports, except tour selections are already based upon this criteria. Also, I don't think the Scandi experience would be seen these days. If BOF were sending inexperienced or incapable coaches on tours then we would have known about it by now - you didn't think BOF sent current and ex-GB internationals on tour just for show - did you?

[greywolf]

Sadly, I have no experience of squads, start or otherwise (lack of talent being the only issue here...), nor do i know the athlete in question - can only hope she's a) not too mortified at the public discussion b) positively encouraged by all the support expressed to kick some ass in the future...

...but this: Axel wrote "Please don't tell me to take up the matter with BOF and the Start squad because I did last year and their parting shot was they thought she did not have potential to improve as an orienteer and perhaps she would be better of in another sport." is, (unless there's been some major misunderstanding) shocking - there's way too few people in the sport already, discouraging those with demonstrable talent is both disgraceful and stupid.

[Adventure Racer]

In the lead up to London 2012 it is not likely that British Orienteering will be able to maintain current funding levels and in this climate it is not feasible to try and maintain squad sizes across the board. The Start Squad will not be the only one to suffer from reduced numbers.

Hardly news, but nice to see one of the benefits of London hosting the Olympics which will supposedly help sports throughout the country. I'll add that to my numerous reasons for wishing Paris had won.

[DIDSCO]

Peter B > your comment doesn't make sense, please correct it, then I'll reply to it.

[Becks]

Training with my dad does her much better anyway. Those start squad weekends r bit crap really i didnt enjoy them and i dont feel i got much out of them. My success was due to my dads hard work and hard training that we did.

Just watch out world, Julias coming to get you!!

Well, cheers for that Stef. I'm really glad I spent two years travelling the length of the country, sacrificing my weekends and holiday, for a coment like that.

Previous comments about people knowing nothing about the sport coaching on these weeks and weekends are total rubbish. The majority of juniors on tour benefit hugely from a wide range of experienced coaches, and to write us all off like that is really hugely insulting.