start squad

[Mrs H]

Crikey - the Start Squad selections look a bit thin on the ground there's not enough M17s to make a relay team - is this the funding cuts beginning to bite?

[RogYoman]

if gb want to win medals at woc in the future, cutting the start squad size to minimum is a questionable action.

[Nottinghamshire outlaw]

Don't equate the Start Squad size with future squad or team selections. The General Selection notes make it clear that anyone (in or outside of a squad) with the right results in selection races can be chosen for a GB team. In other words 'it's all to play for' - if you are committed you will train hard and make the selectors pick you.

[Duncan]

So what do those who have made the selections stand to get out of being in the Start Squad? Previously you got two training weekends a year - they would be great when you had lots of you there to push you, inspire your training, bounce ideas off etc.; not so great if there are only one or two of your contemporaries there. Summer tours and internationals are selected independently of who is in the start squad. Apart from some kit, some cheap Wilfs, and any pressure you put yourself under to not get beaten by those not in the start squad, is there anything else?

At least there is a positive - for those who have missed out on selection perhaps you aren't missing out on all that much, and, with suitable support from regional squad training, it won't change all that much in terms of GB's performances at the end of the day.

[RogYoman]

very good point. what do you mean by "support from a regional squad"?

[awk]

Previously you got two training weekends a year - they would be great when you had lots of you there to push you, inspire your training, bounce ideas off etc.; not so great if there are only one or two of your contemporaries there.

Duncan, does "previously" you mean that there aren't two weekends a year now? I hope not!

I do agree about the importance of having peers around - there is a point of critical mass, as feedback from the tours and regional squads show. It is certainly going to make the regional squads even more important (which is probably no bad thing in the longer term), as I really can't see involving such few numbers having much positive impact on the elite scene longer term.

I think what Duncan means Roger is coaching, activities and advice appropriate to aspiring elite. I'm sure most, if not all, can do exactly that.

But congratulations to those who have been selected - given the small numbers, you've really earned your places!

[Mrs H]

I wonder what will happen is the Start Squad becomes uncool? I notice a few juniors passed up their places on summer tour this year

[Little Hoddy]

In some ways I think that those who just missed out on selection are those who have the most to gain from Start Squad, both in terms of technical ability and in terms of being inspired and focussed to dedicate themselves to be among the best. Those selected at the top tend to already have the determination to get to JWOC etc.

I think a lot could be gained from extending the squad a bit more, particularly in the older age groups, perhaps at the cost of slightly higher athlete fees for the weekends. As a rule orienteers don't seem to be completely skint. Maybe a small fund could be set up for a few to apply to if they have financial difficulties?

[bedders]

Thats a really good point Hoddy, those who aren't selected at first will hopefully go on to have the motivation to prove the selectors wrong and give them the metaphorical finger.

The one major downside to Start Squad is the massive pressure its members come under to perform, if they don't perform to the best of their abilities then they lose their place, and if they do then it adds to the pressure to become one of the best. I'm not saying Start Squad is a bad thing, for it has produced some quality athletes, but it has also had the opposite effect on others, and they have gone in totally the other direction, some even dropping out of orienteering all together.

I think that younger athletes shouldn't be pressured too early as it may not always have the desired effect. Perhaps this year the smaller Squad numbers reflect that, and the selectors are waiting for some people to prove that they have the right attitude to succeed.

[Little Hoddy]

I don't really see the logic in selecting more 14's than 16's/17's. I mean sure, it seems a good way of getting as many as possible on the right track and keen to keep going, but there's so many that have been selected as 14's and then dropped out of highly competitive orienteering altogether. It seems a bit random who will hang on in there till 18's and older.

The way I see it, the main benefits from the Start Squad are motivation and being helped to be more dedicated and driven to put the effort in. The older athletes will have a much better idea of what they are aiming for and how seriously they want to take orienteering in the longer term.

At the end of the day, a pretty small proportion of those in the start squad will make it to become really top dedicated athletes at the world level in the Junior and Senior squads. These people are defined more by the fact that they have at some point decided that they want it enough to put the effort in and to make the huge commitment to dedicate a significant part of their life to orienteering than by having had talent as a 14/16. I think evening the numbers out throughout the age groups would help to create more of these people.

Obviously, however, my view is biased.

[harry]

Hoddy's idea is similar to what the Swiss senior squad do. They have 3 selected groups of athletes an elite group, an under 23 group and a B group.

For each training camp each group pay different amounts. Elite group (those who are winning medals generally) get cheapest (often but not always free), then U23 group and then it's most expensive for the B group athletes.

This means everyone gets the same opportunities but they are supporting their top athletes fully. Also means big training camps with lots of people to race against/ learn from/ socialise with.

Interesting idea. It works because in reality the athletes do not pay out of their own pocket, they just have to work a bit harder to get money from club(s), universities etc, and if they are hungry to improve their performance then they find the money and take the opportunities.

[Axel]

From a frustrated Dad who has had to deal with a disappointerd daughter for the last 2 years. I cant get my head round the selection process and have started to think its more down to who you know or if you face fits rather down to persons orienteering ability or fitness.

Firstly I can't understand how they can publish the squad selections when they have not even sent out the last tour reports. My daughter thought that she had done quite well on tour, even though she did have a nightmare on the classic race, however she did win the middle race.

Secondly look at my daughters results from this small selection of races post and pre tour; SINS JW5L, Individual Junior Inter Regionals W16,Scottish 6 days W16 and white Rose JW5L and then tell me she is not on par with the other 4 girls selected.

Albeit I have not seen any of the emails she has recieved from the the Start Manager or Head coach, but I think the jist of the messages is; train harder, join a athletics club, improve your skill, beat the other girls in your class and you could be selected again in the future. Bullshit!!!

Please don't tell me to take up the matter with BOF and the Start squad because I did last year and their parting shot was they thought she did not have potential to improve as an orienteer and perhaps she would be better of in another sport. This was just after she had won a gold medal at the World Schools Champs.

I know she will be annoyed and embarrassed that I have voiced my opinions on this forum but I am the shoulder she has to lean on and keep her motivated when she feels that all the hard work she has done both mentally and physically have been to no avail.

[Lizi Beee]

Fair comments, I think I mostly agree with Little Hoddy, I've never really seen the point of Start Squad for under top year 16s, I mean yeah it was good social and nice to get out to really nice areas to train on for those precious two weekends, but only really because there was such a number there. (Plus being northwest we train on nice areas anyhoo)

At a time when it seems we are so striving in the sport to get the shiny medals and when funding is always so short, why not focus it more on the groups that need it? As Hoddy said you really can't tell who will stay in it, especially not if you pressurise them from such a young age (Look at the girls in my year for example), give them a few years, do the tours, encourage them and maybe offer talks that they can go to on motivation and training specifics etc.

Saying all that, I still wanna congratulate everyone on getting on Take advantage of the nice areas and the expertise you are provided with! But most of all ENJOY it. No point doing it if you don't.

[Peter B]

I think that everyone who is in contention for Start Squad membership would benefit from it, that is to say that they are all serious about their potential and development.

Not knowing the situation fully Peter, do some orienteers have financial difficulties especially when it comes to Start Squad events, or is it just the national body who has them?

I believe that the Start Squad has a negative (as well as positive) effect psychologically as well as physically, and more so at a younger age. Is 13/14 really the right age to be forming an 'elite' group of juniors? Were the Start Squad cut to just M/W 16/17 or at least restricted at the younger age then there would be more of a focus (financially as much as anything) on the juniors who showed potential for selection at junior competitions in a few years time. As it is, once again the number of older juniors being selected is dwindling - although this doesn't presumably rule out anyone else getting selected for JWOC, JEC etc. If anything, there shouldn't be more of the younger juniors being selected than older in my opinion - it shows to me that more 16's and 17's are missing out on (in some cases vital) opportunity for development.

[RS]

Why not scrap it and use the money to fund/part fund more weekends like Lakeside with perhaps the opportunity for tours abroad like now and charge towards all costs? Having gold/championship standards would not be a criteria for home trips and this would allow more keen people to take part. At times it is impossible to achieve championship/gold standard for many juniors as we have such outstanding athletes at the head of some classes - 18s spring to mind at the moment.