gold times

[Mrs H]

Can any one make head or tail of the Yvette Baker Trophy gold times list just posted on the BOF website - they include times over 2 years ago (eg white Rose 2005) surely they don't count for the purposes of this years competition (being over 2 years ago).

On second thoughts as our local first round co-incides with the start of university freshers week - perhaps we'll just give it a miss.

[DM]

I had to look again at the eligibility rules to be sure, as I also thought there was something about 3 Golds in the last 2 years being important.

Looking a the guidelines it has the words "3 Golds at any time". The key words being at any time.

Using the files should be easy if they are downloaded to Excel, merged and filtered/ worked on to work out who has 3 or more golds per age class, I might even have a go myself later...

[Nottinghamshire outlaw]

Here's a scenario: Joe Bloggs age 16 gets 3 gold times on JM5M in 2005. He does not go to any more regional or national events in 2006 or 2007 and so gets no more gold times.

Is it right (= fair) that he (now 18) be allowed to run on a Light Green or even easier course in 2007 - answer ?

[Nottinghamshire outlaw]

I don't know how the funny face got into my last post!! Joe Bloggs is now 18 in my scenario - he's probably cool too (if that was what I added?)!!

[Mrs H]

Is it right (= fair) answer ?

Well I was hoping for rules not rhetoric - if you don't know the answer how are we meant to? More mind reading?

[graeme]

The eligibility rule is, e.g. ...

any M/W16+ who has not at any time achieved three gold times on their age class course ...

Since "at any time" is longer than 2 years, much ancient history must be unearthed, back to the last millenium: plenty of under 10s have got gold times!

[awk]

surely they don't count for the purposes of this years competition (being over 2 years ago).

Why not?

Since "at any time" is longer than 2 years, much ancient history must be unearthed, back to the last millenium: plenty of under 10s have got gold times!

Interesting interpretation - I hadn't seen that one before! However, I'm sure (?) it's meant to mean current age class. But this itself would mean that if you are now an M18, got 3 golds at M16 in National events but none at regional events (unlikely scenario I know, but you never know!), you could still run Light Green. Hmmmm. Don't think it's meant to mean that either. Looks to me as if the wording has maybe got a wee bit unnecessarily complicated. (How about "any M/W16+ who has not at any time achieved three golds in a junior TD5 class at C3 level or above." Or it might even be simpler to list who is excluded?

[Mrs H]

Thanks for the straight answer Graeme - i shall merely wonder what the significance of the 2 years is in the following statement

the following people have been identified as having achieved at least 3 gold times over the past 2 years.

Or it it merely a booby trap to catch out unwitting juniors and their inatentive (or alternatively un-nerdy and busy) parents?

[awk]

Thanks for the straight answer Graeme - i shall merely wonder what the significance of the 2 years is in the following statement

I think that comes from the fact that you need to acquire all 3 standards in a 2 year period to get your gold badge (or at least you used to - haven't looked up to check whether that's still the case).

[GML]

I too am confused by this list, but in another respect. In a number of cases juniors that achieved a Gold (or Championship) standard at one of the listed events don't seem to have been credited with this in the list, whereas others who achieved the same standard in the same class at the same event have been (see for example the M18L class at JK 2007 Day 3). Or does the list only include the first 3 Gold (or better?) standards achieved by each junior in a particular class?

Any (informed) insight anyone?

Thanks
Graham

[Lumpy Lycra]

> GML : Last time I looked at these lists they only included people who had achieved the 3 standards that would disqualify them from "running down". Could your missing juniors have achieved Gold at one or two events only?

[harry]

Of course these rules wouldn't be necessary if people weren't playing "Championship Manager" with their club junior team and trying to be as underhand as possible in pursuit of UK junior team glory.

I don't reckon Yvette would have approved of spending so much time working out how to run some lanky 18 year old on a yellow course and bring home maximum points. She'd have probably said "let them run whatever they like & lets get down the pub."

[Mrs H]

spending so much time working out how to run some lanky 18 year old on a yellow course and bring home maximum points.

I seem to recall some club running an M20 on the orange one year and the rules were subsequently changed!

But I'll pass that message on to the team managers - they are both 16 - so i guess they'll have to sit in the pub garden with a lemonade and the smokers.

I think all of our 18s will already be in the pub as it's freshers week. As I said we won't be there.

I actualy don't understand what is underhand abut trying to find out what the rules actually mean - most people here are finding them difficult to interpret

[D,J,J&Ms Dad]

Of course these rules wouldn't be necessary if people weren't playing "Championship Manager" with their club junior team and trying to be as underhand as possible in pursuit of UK junior team glory.

I don't reckon Yvette would have approved of spending so much time working out how to run some lanky 18 year old on a yellow course and bring home maximum points. She'd have probably said "let them run whatever they like & lets get down the pub."

Harry, don't be harsh on the team managers, most of them juniors, who are trying to put forward the best possible teams in order to try to win a prestigious event. As long as they work within the rules - and if the rules allow lanky 18 year olds to run easier courses then so be it - then they are doing nothing wrong whatsoever. If you don't agree with the actual rules that is different - make your voice heard in the appropriate place but don't shoot the messenger!

[DM]

Of course these rules wouldn't be necessary if people weren't playing "Championship Manager" with their club junior team and trying to be as underhand as possible in pursuit of UK junior team glory.

I don't reckon Yvette would have approved of spending so much time working out how to run some lanky 18 year old on a yellow course and bring home maximum points. She'd have probably said "let them run whatever they like & lets get down the pub."

Harry, with no rules wouldn't we end up with exactly what you are suggesting is happening now? 18 year olds on all courses. This would have a negative effect on the younger ones and they probably wouldn't turn out next time and the event would die - not what people want. I don't see what's wrong with understanding the rules and working within them to let the juniors achieve the best result they can....

Anyway, your scenario of the 18 year old on yellow will not happen because the eligibility for yellow is;

Any M/W10
Any M/W12 or M/W 14 who has not at any time achieved 3 gold times on their age class or on JM/W3 or higher courses plus has not finished in a top 10 position in their M/W Yellow at a previous YBT.

Your 18 year old fails to be eligible on both counts.

Eligibility for Orange, LG are similarly but not quite identically worded. Event guidelines are found via a link on the same page as the gold times on the BOF site.