INCLUSION - PC over the Top

[Gross]

Have just looked at the BOF website section on 'Governing Body' and before it explains anything about the Federation etc it sets out the BOF Equality Policy.... all very good:) So I looked at the analysis of thier report & it goes way over the top (see below). I (and I'm sure the vast majority of other orienteers) couldn't give a toss if there are no Moslum, Jews, Christian, Catholics, Protestants etc orienteering in GB... what we need are orienteers of all descriptions....

The major cause for concern with regard to religions represented is the deficit in numbers of
Jewish and Muslim new members. British Orienteering had no new members of Jewish religion in
2007. Similarly, only 0.6% of new members were Muslim, compared to 3% of the population as a
whole.

The major areas of concern with regard to the staff statistics is that 100% staff members are White.
There are no Mixed, Asian, Black, Chinese or other races represented.

..... so what if all the staff are white!!! Should we employ an asian Head Coach just because he's Asian... of course not!!!

And so it goes on.... absolute nonsense!!!!

[graeme]

How do they know all that?

Do you have to reveal your religion in order to join BOF these days?

[marcus_weatherburn]

no you dont have to show your religion. where are you getting these figures from?

[ratleikur]

BOF database is probably linked to some shady government department....
Am I the only one who thinks that this constant harping on about, and classifying people by, race or religion is one of the main causes of problems - all it does is empasise differences. Can't we just think in terms of people? I got pulled in by one of those police summer drink/driving campaigns a couple of weeks ago (the ones where they waste manpower pulling over every 3rd car to tell you it's bad to drink and drive) and I got asked what racial group I felt I belonged to - my answer of "homo sapiens" wasn't on the tick list -but I don't think of myself as belonging to a particular group so why should I classify myself? It all seems a bit tribal

[Kirsten]

How do they know all that?

Do you have to reveal your religion in order to join BOF these days?

Yes - it's an optional part of the form.
I was filling in an application form for BOF on behalf of someone else in March and found all those questions about religion and ethnicity. I just left it all blank and nothing came of it, but yes they are asking.

[johnloguk]

There is a serious side to all this of course. If there are whole swathes of society that are missing out on something, whether it be a wonderful sport, public services or simply access to information in their language, then you would hope that a civilised society would want to do something about it. But with my cynical head on I'm sure that they wouldn't be doing it unless it was a government target they had to tick off in order to get funding

[FatBoy]

I would agree we need to stop classifying people - surely the whole point is people are people, not segregated on a form. If one "section" of society are going orienteering less than others then it doesn't mean were excluding them!

[johnloguk]

If one "section" of society are going orienteering less than others then it doesn't mean were excluding them!

Ah but it might, not deliberately I hope, but we might be giving out messages that certain people aren't welcome at orienteering events. I remember taking some friends to an event many years ago and their reaction was quite telling. They said they enjoyed it, but they also said that they didn't feel part of it. Everyone else seemed to know what was going on, there seemed little help for newcomers, and there was an assumption that newcomers would automatically understand the odd jargon and processes of orienteering. Basically they felt excluded, despite me being there, and whenever I wasn't around they felt very isolated and even unwelcome. They also described it as "horribly middle class", which was odd as they are middle class teachers!

So if white middle class teachers can feel excluded from orienteering just imagine how black working class families might feel. Yes I know that many clubs do all sorts of things to make newcomers feel welcome, but try putting an outsider's head on more often and see how we appear.

For me this shouldn't be "PC nonsense", but because we all suspect BOF are only doing it to tick a box that is what it is seen as.

[Gross]

So... next time a job comes up at BOF Office 3 people are equally suited & qualified... one is a Muslum, one a Jew and one Wee Free.... Decision comes to job share between Muslum & Jew.... Wee Free is discriminated against then & feels excluded... so next Sunday after the event he goes for a beer... nothing wrong with that except a real Wee Free wouldn't be out on Sunday... so his/her own religion excludes him... BOF changes all events to Saturdays following a long drawn out law suit:)

[EddieH]

When I went up to Oxford th UCCA form (or whatever it was) had "religion" on it.

One of my peers put "sun worshipper".

His first morning he was aroused at 4.00 by the porter. "Compliments of the rector - the sun will be rising in one hour Sir."

[SeanC]

I'm playing a bit of devils advocate here but...

I can't see a problem with collecting these data. Surely its useful to know who goes orienteering to help work out if the marketing strategy is appealing to certain groups or not. From the government's viewpoint they are spending a wedge of taxpayers money on our sport, they would be entitled to know if there money was being spent effectively or not, and in their assessment of effectively that might include working out if the sport is attracting more than just 41 year old, white, middle class, male, Geography teachers living in suburban areas. If for some reason the sport isnt accessible to big chunks of the population it might be a reasonable question to ask why they should be asked to pay for it.

What you do with the data is a different question. Being "concerned" is different to positive discrimination. Also the data seems flawed and such analysis might be better off analysing by postcode/ages/sex which seems reliable.

[awk]

We started collecting this sort of data when I was at BOF, and I was partly responsible for that. Why? Well, in order to get any grant support, we were required to satisfy achieve various 'kitemarks' on inclusion ( spent some time in my final year putting together the portfolio of evidence to satisfy these). One of the criteria for that was knowing the gender/ethnic/religous/disability mix, and making demonstrable efforts to include under-represented groups. We had to show proactive efforts to identify those numbers. Thus the questionnaires sections of the membership form.

Numbers were also gathered in other ways as not all participants are members, with the emphasis on keeping volunteer work to a minimum.

Without this effort, there would be no grant money. Simple really. In fact, those numbers showed that orienteering was more inclusive than is sometimes thought.

[johnloguk]

I agree with a lot of what Sean and AWK say, but the nubb really is what you do with the data, and is it the right data anyway? We all know that statistics can be made to say almost anything you want them to. I can easily produce statistics to show that living in a council house makes you thick, and that black people are inherently more criminal than white people. Both of which are patently untrue.

Also, if you are only collecting data because you have to tick a box or get a grant then you stop doing it the moment you don't have to. I've seen this for years in the public sector, hospital waiting lists being the classic example. The waiting lists that are the target come down, while the others go up!

The argument has to be "are the targets and priorities the right ones for our sport, not for the government"? Cue heated debate, or everyone nodding off

[FatBoy]

I wouldn't blame BOF on this one, I know full well that in all walks of life you get asked about your ethinicity these days. I know there are plenty of racists still around, but I would like to think our society in the UK is by enlarge racism free, yet the sign of the times is that we are now pigeon-holed into a race in almost everything we do. I know the idea is to try and show we're not being racist by coming up with stats to say so, but surely by creating such pigeon holes we are thus creating a racial divide?

[Gross]

My point in starting this was why on earth does the BOF equality policy need to be the first thing you see on a webpage 'governing body'!!

Like I said, I'm sure the vast majority of orienteers aren't overly interested in the ethnic or religious background of BOF.... and it certainly isn't a 'major concearn' to most