I know it's old hat around here, but I find the contrast interesting:
Oringen H45 longest distance of the week 6.1km on flat terrain (winning times in low 30s). Six Day, M45L shortest distance of the week 7.2km.
Oringen H15 longest distance of the week 4.4km (winning times low 20s). Six Day, M16 shortest distance of the week 5.8km.
Even more of a contrast when you look at some of the other days in Scotland.
No criticism of the Six Day intended- the distances are well within British guidelines. After all, the National event I'm planning in September has M45L at 9km and M16A at 7.3km. But I found this an interesting contrast, nevertheless, particularly in relation to the juniors.
Distances, yet again!
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Shorter (time) courses clear the forest of people quicker:) How many times in the O Ringen have you felt there's not really so many people about as you'd expect (apart from being in wrong bit of forest) until nearer the finish?
Go orienteering in Lithuania......... best in the world:)
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Gross - god
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Back in '94 when the World Masters (then Vets) was in Scotland, I shared a B&B with some Norwegians. They had a great time, one of them won both qualifiers for M45 then messed up the final, but they all said the courses were longer than they were used to. Again this isn't a criticism, just an observation.
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johnloguk - green
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johnloguk wrote:one of them won both qualifiers for M45 then messed up the final, but they all said the courses were longer than they were used to.
That's quite common in WMOC... people doing well in the heats aren't always the likely winner's. The 'big boys' don't come out to play until the finals & just 'jog' round the heats.
Go orienteering in Lithuania......... best in the world:)
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Gross - god
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Dave wrote:There was no rest day at O-Ringen which there is at the Scottish which must make some difference too
Not this year, but there has been and will be according to the invitations. No rest day, but the middle day was a middle distance day (3.5k, won in just over 20 mins), which is not something we get in Scotland, or pretty much anywhere in Britain, sadly. Maybe soon with a bit of luck.
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awk - god
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I'm all for the courses being at the top end of the guide lines. I'm going to to the Scottish 6 days for both the mental and physical challenge and hopefully prepared myself for that. For the rest of you If you ain't fit enough to hack six days of prime oing then get out and train more or take the option of running short courses thats why they are provided. Throughout the year we have suffered at National Events courses that have been far to short. Unfortunately the vocal few seem to be the same brigade that are suggesting we should lessen the challenge at are major competions like the JK. Stop whinging and get out in the forest and face the challenge!!!!
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For the rest of you If you ain't fit enough to hack six days of prime oing then get out and train more or take the option of running short courses thats why they are provided.
Fitness is specific: don't simply equate fitness with being able to run long distances, as Thierry Gieorgou has more than proven. Having said that, I've entered short, and am quite happy to have done so, with the caveat below.
Throughout the year we have suffered at National Events courses that have been far to short. Unfortunately the vocal few seem to be the same brigade that are suggesting we should lessen the challenge at are major competions like the JK. Stop whinging and get out in the forest and face the challenge!!!!
Why is it that so many British orienteers always seem to equate 'challenge' with distance? There is just as much challenge in a middle or indeed sprint race, when there is far less room for error (a 1 minute mistake in a sprint is far more damaging than in a long), it's just a different one. Personally, I want more challenge in the sport, by bringing in these shorter distances as well (not instead of). To that extent, I'm fed up that the virtually the only offering we ever get on middle distance racing is as a 'B' race - one of the challenges I enjoy is racing against the best.
One of the reasons I put the contrasting distances up, was to highlight this. The O-ringen was no less of a challenge than the Six Day. Indeed, in may ways it was a greater challenge. Why? First, of all class sizes (I ran in a class of over 220); secondly there was no room for error - all 5 days counted; thirdly - the middle distance day varied the demands. Fourthly, quality of competition - there were goodness knows how many ex-world champs medallists in my class, who ran (at least to me!) at phenomenal speeds.
That is not to decry the Six Day, which I'm sure will be an enjoyable challenge too (and a different one) - I'm really looking forward to it. But my reasons for putting up the contrast was to highlight just this difference - that it doesn't take distance to provide great sport. If I enjoy the Six Day even half as much as the Oringen, then I'll be a happy orienteer!
Where I do think we have a problem, certainly not one that has really been resolved, is on junior course distances, where I do think we emphasise distance too early.
Having said all this, I do like the distance challenge too, so am looking forward to the Aire Long-O in September as well.
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awk - god
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The six-day has always seen itself as a festival and a holiday event. Like the vast majority of participants, of course, I'd like to do well but that's not the main thing - I'm looking forward to spending a decent amount of time running around in beautiful forests. While there's no doubting the technical challenge, only getting half an hour in the woods and only seeing a small section of the forest is not much of an orienteering day out.
Anyway, thanks for the warning the danger of being short-changed at O-ringen - I had no idea. At the French this year I had to get up at 6am for an 8am start time on a 30 minute course: that's not my idea of an orienteering holiday!
Anyway, thanks for the warning the danger of being short-changed at O-ringen - I had no idea. At the French this year I had to get up at 6am for an 8am start time on a 30 minute course: that's not my idea of an orienteering holiday!
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graeme - god
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graeme wrote:Anyway, thanks for the warning the danger of being short-changed at O-ringen - I had no idea.
Well, from chatting to many of the Brits there, you'd have been the only one who did feel that.
All the long distance aficionados say 'just run down in Short' if you don't like the distance. I'd say, if there was any danger of feeling short changed 'just run up' (which I know you do Graeme). M21 Super Elite was 20k on day 1 after all - and to use Axel's argument, if you aren't good enough to get in, just get fitter!

Incidentally, the O-ringen is very strong on being a holiday event too, and caters far more for beginners and non-TD5 orienteers than ANY British multiday. Your quoting of the French underlines my suspicion that this blanket standard distance thing is peculiarly British.
BTW, the Swiss O-week in 2009 is advertising "a town sprint, a short distance event, three demanding races in pre-alpine terrain and an alpine long distance race as a finale", being aimed at "well-trained orienteers" who are "looking for a special challenge". Sounds interesting!
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awk - god
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awk wrote:'just run up'
I was already having to run up to get an hour a day in the woods!
The annoying thing was there was no indication of lengths when we entered. When you have proper international standards you assume you know what you're getting - but I couldn't see any indication ahead of time for o-ringen of quite how little orienteering was on offer if you enter an age class.
Coming soon
Boston City Race (May, maybe not)
Coasts and Islands (Shetland)
SprintScotland https://sprintscotland.weebly.com/
Boston City Race (May, maybe not)
Coasts and Islands (Shetland)
SprintScotland https://sprintscotland.weebly.com/
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graeme - god
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A different perspective on the French. I run short courses as I'm not a distance runner. I found the French lengths OK and I had to get up early too, but what I found worse was the late start on the final day. No criticism just sods law I get a late start on the extremely hot day when I'm a little exhausted but I struggled round to complete the day to count in the standings.
I'm looking forward to the scottish as long as I don't get head high bracken etc. On the face of it the cotrse lengths don't look too bad for me. I expect I'll change my mind during the week.
I'm looking forward to the scottish as long as I don't get head high bracken etc. On the face of it the cotrse lengths don't look too bad for me. I expect I'll change my mind during the week.
Diets and fitness are no good if you can't read the map.
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awk wrote:BTW, the Swiss O-week in 2009 is advertising "a town sprint, a short distance event, three demanding races in pre-alpine terrain and an alpine long distance race as a finale", being aimed at "well-trained orienteers" who are "looking for a special challenge". Sounds interesting!
And the same week as Tayside 2009. Tricky decisions coming up!
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