BOC/BRC appeals

[andy]

My second post was about the importance of not making mistakes in the first place so there's never any need to void a course - surely that is the major issue here and one that needs to be adressed by the federation?

exactly, this should be the conclusion of the thread, regardless of the views / opinions of voiding / not voiding courses.

and it was me who was of the 'if it's wrong void it' opinion (and I've actually be on both sides of the argument - winning when someone was affected and being far down the results and being affected by a 'moving' control)

[SJC]

My second post was about the importance of not making mistakes in the first place so there's never any need to void a course.

Absolutely agree that there is no excuse for getting things wrong, but at both this year's British Relays and the 2006 JK the problem was a control that had been put out in the right place, checked, but then gone missing. In each case only a small number of competitors were affected, so do you void these courses or not ?

[mharky]

The End.

[Oldman]

This would allow any problem to be sorted out at the time, not weeks afterwards in a committee room.

Exactly! Can you imagine how embarrassing all this would be if we had had decent media coverage at this year's BOC. We must find a system (be it voiding or removing splits or whatever, and you know my views on all that) that enables a result on the day without fail.

[mharky]

can you not read?

I recommend anyone who thinks that the Group made the wrong decision by allowing the results to stand, and agrees that the only available option in such a circumstance is to void a course should appeal the decision. We shouldn't stand for such nonsense.

[freaky_phil]

I recommend anyone who thinks that the Group made the wrong decision by allowing the results to stand, and agrees that the only available option in such a circumstance is to void a course should appeal the decision.

We did, hence the reason why this topic ever occurred in the first place. Protest to Orangiser - Rejected, Appeal to Jury - Rejected, Appeal to Rules Group - Rejected. No-one would VOID the Mini Junior course. So Court of Human Rights next ???

[mharky]

I e-mailed Barry Elkington, and he is awaiting my reply to decide how to take the complaint forward. I suggest everyone who thinks they made decision appeal against it. I tried to find out if there is an official way, and there is, but I don't have time to go into it. But if someone could find out what it is, it's in the guidelines somewhere, section 9 rings a bell. And contact Barry Elkington, via BOF. They should know that what they have done is wrong, and 80% of people who voted in the poll agree. Voiding is the only way. Sometimes they make a wrong decision, and they need us to tell them when they have. But just me making a complaint aint going to to anything.

[freaky_phil]

The Rules are quite clear in Section 9, you have 14 days after the Jury's decision to appeal to the Rules Group, which has been done. The Rules group decided not to alter the results in any way, as per their statement. Whether you agree with the Rules Group decision or not does not matter as there is no process under the Rules and Guidelines to take this matter any further. The final say is with the Rules Group, I can't see that within the rules they can now reverse their decision.
Don't get me wrong I wish the decision had been different but since so much time has past since the event and their decision, it should now stand, but possibly the rules improved/made clearer around voiding courses and removing legs etc.

[Red Adder]

Isn't there some pan-sport body - something like "court of arbitration in sport" for appeals even if the rules and processes of a particular sport don't apparently give that option. Though prior to that why not appeal to IOF first ?

[Oldman]

Isn't there some pan-sport body - something like "court of arbitration in sport" for appeals even if the rules and processes of a particular sport don't apparently give that option. Though prior to that why not appeal to IOF first ?

There's a UK body called the Sports Dispute Resolution Panel which can be found at http://www.sportsdisputes.co.uk and the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) at http://www.tas-cas.org

However, neither of these bodies normally handles disputes free, and CAS requires there to be a formal recognition of using them in the sport's regulations.

But that's academic: you're not seriously suggesting this issue is important enough to go to such outside bodies, surely?

IOF won't be interested, I'm sure.

Campaign within BOF if you think change is needed, eg canvass a Councillor

[Mr timE]

Sorry for coming in late but my broadband has been out for a while and also moving offices at work so no connection there.

As our sport is not exactly hot news for the media and the only people that are really interested in the results are those who ran, those who wanted to run but could not and the odd opponent or relative, could we not therefore post up all the options.

We could put up a set of results unaltered, then post another set with relevant legs removed and perhaps even a third page with a note saying this course might have been void as this particular problem occurred and then let people decide for themselves which they want and if they would have voided or not. That way we keep everyone happy, or if you are a pessimist you might say nobody would be happy.

OK you would still need to award the odd trophy, so perhaps we could run a poll on Nopesport each time it happens and award the prize based on that, would certainly boast the hits stats.

Seriously, why not post both sets of results, but void any awarding of prizes?

[NeilC]

I've never read so much waffle in all my life, typically British all piffle and soft and fluffy round the edges. From all sides of Brit Oing no one can make a decision, you don't see this situation in European or Scandinavian events let alone thier Championships.

We have officialdom over here that doesn't like to hurt peoples feelings so never make a firm decision. If a control is misplaced in whatever circumstances then the course should voided end of story.

Just for the record there were a number of problems at the French five days - on one day a couple of splits were removed but mostly no one seemde to care too much and just moved onto the next race. Not sure whether Nopesport postings would increase or decrease if such an attitude was adopted here.

[Axel]

Neil,

As I said in part of my previous email the Europeans make a decision straight away and then get on with the event.

[Gross]

Just for the record there were a number of problems at the French five days - on one day a couple of splits were removed but mostly no one seemde to care too much and just moved onto the next race. Not sure whether Nopesport postings would increase or decrease if such an attitude was adopted here.

You miss the point entirely:) There is nothing wrong with playing with results in a happy go lucky holiday event like the French 5 Days or the Scottish 6 Days. It a different matter at a National Elite Championships........

[NeilC]

Axel brought up the comment about European events (Championship or otherwise) so I was just attempting to analyse what these differences might be.

At both BOC/BRC and the French mistakes were made. In both cases decisions were quickly taken by the respective juries - at the French to remove splits and at BOC and BRC to let the results stand. There doesn't seem to be much difference in the ability to make a decision - even if the decisions themselves are controversial. This was the only point I was trying to make.