British athletes in Ukraine

[SYO Member]

It's a joke to even suggest that in other countries there would be the concept of a 'risk assessment' adopted in the same obsessive way that occurs in the UK.

To me, risk assessment means use your commom sense and experience, and although we may not yet know all the circumstances of what happened to Jenny and Pippa, it would be inexcusable if there had not even been a warning from the organisers of the likelihood of encountering wild dogs in the o-areas, even if they were to be used for training and not competition.

Hopefully, this frightening incident will surely focus the WOC organisers to prevent any possible recurrence in whatever way for areas used in August (add to the 16,000?), and I'm sure everyone on here wishes all the best to Jenny and Pippa.

My worst o-encounter of dogs was coming across 6 pit-bull terriers off-leash with no visible owner in woodland at an NOC event at Rufford Park. I slowly walked away without my back to them and without staring at them (difficult to do actually) and emerged unscathed.

On a lighter note, every day as I walk into work, I pass an open yard that has what the owner tells me is an American pit-bull/bull mastiff cross which is as big as an alsation, isn't always on a lead, and barks at everybody passing, except me. Why? Because every now and then I throw Butch a biscuit if the owner's not around, and I've become his friend for life.

[Gross]

This has little to do with orienteering, but a range of responses spring to mind:
1. So you get deported for trying to bribe the police? Very proper.
2. So that's the only way to leave the country safely?
3. So you get chucked out of the country for trying to be friendly? Depends whether male or female maybe...
4. So the police set a poor drink-driving example.
5. So the maps are that poor you need a local guide?
6. So the dogs really ARE that dangerous that Gross bottled out.
7. But which border? Do they chuck you in the Black Sea?

1. Team Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland & GB were more than happy we could 'bribe' the local Chief:)
2. Only way for a swift exit
3. No way you get chucked out for that!
4. Police are p****d half the time
5. Yes
6. Yep....
7. Poland / Ukraine

[Gross]

I'm sure the GB athletes & the others are well aware of dogs in the forests in Kyiv. You only need to have run once there to know about the problem. It's not anything unusual... along with rubbish, broken bottles, flashers etc etc... all part of orienteering in Kyiv!!!

And team GB has a proffessional support staff who will know the conditions and will have advised the athletes about the dogs.....

I sure that come WOC the Ukraine Army guarding the control sites willl stand up and chase the dogs away ever time a Ukrainian runner comes into view:)

[rosco]

market opening - orienteering armour

[rosco]

A number of years ago I was happily orienteering my way round a course. The next control was number 13, a thicket in a field. As I approached I could hear a barking dog, but I was unconcerned - it was probably at that wee house over there and surely behind that fence. I jumped (I was a lot younger...) over the fence into the field and headed over to the control planning my exit route (good control flow) which would take me past the little white house. As I punched the control, the barking seemed to be getting a bit louder so I turned round - my heart leapt! (at least that is the polite terminology) - racing up the field towards me and most certainly not behind the fence was a large pack of dogs: big dogs, small dogs, brown dogs, black dogs, thin dogs, fat dogs, every type of dog dogs! I turned sprinted I ran I leapt I ran ran ran! I had never run as fast before. I doubt I will ever run as fast again... However, finally seeing that they were chasing some kind of demented cheetah-human cross and not just your average human bean the dogs lost interest. Once I collected my strewn wits I headed for the next control. After passing the "Home for Stray Dogs" (gulp) sign I chose a slightly circuitous but hopefully dog free route. As I approached the control I started congratulating myself on my extreme dog outfoxing when suddenly! a river of dogs came streaming through the fence towards me! I was doomed! With no head start I was never getting away from them... then with all seemingly lost I spotted a stick! I threw it as far as I could and all the dogs chased. Of course they brought it back but in that time I had punched my control. I threw it again - ran 10 metres, threw it again - ran 10m, until I found a dog proof fence on the other side of which I collapsed in a gibbering heap.

PS Later on that same course I was also chased by a horse.

[Stodgetta]

This report from Dave Peel gives a good picture of Kiev and orienteering!
http://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/Documents/WC_07%20pre%20woc%20camp.pdf

[Nails]

I sure that come WOC the Ukraine Army guarding the control sites willl stand up and chase the dogs away ever time a Ukrainian runner comes into view:)

Or they'll just shoot them with guns (the wild dogs that is!)

[Pippa]

Jenny and I were bitten during a training exercise, not part of an official WOC-organised event. There are wild and stray dogs all over the city and forests; there is no way the organisers can warn us about every dog, or clear the forests. Our plight will hopefully make the organisers more cautious when setting courses for WOC. The organisers were concerned for us, and we made sure the other teams were aware of the location of the attack.

We were close to our minibus bus when attacked and the squad staff were brilliant in cleaning the wounds and getting us to a Ukrainian hospital (an experience in itself...).

Most of the dogs just bark but do not properly run at you, unfortunately we came across a particularly mangy specimen who attacked to bite rather than scare.

Orienteering in Ukraine is an adventure, both in and out of the forest, coping with whatever is thrown at you is part of our sport. You could just as easily come to serious harm falling down one of the rubbish-tip-collapsing gullies! That said, most of the forest is fantastic, it's just a bit scrappy round the edge sometimes. I really enjoyed the whole experience and look forward to more.

The advice we were given regarding dogs was to be agressive towards them, and if necessary throw stones. This seemed to work when I was chased in the sprint qualifier the next day.

It's also good sprint training to be chased by dogs - never seen Jenny move so fast!

Pippa

[Nails]

Somewhere I heard that each year they cull around 16,000 wild dogs in Kiev.

[Mr Average]

Somewhere I heard that each year they cull around 16,000 wild dogs in Kiev.

I'm not surprised they are wild - i'd be furious if they culled 16,000 of my friends each year

[Nails]

I hate dogs they should cull them all -sorry I mean dog owners.

[PMG]

When we orienteered in New Zealand a couple of years ago we had to sign a document to confirm we had read the risk assessment!

Peter