SOL 4 Rogie

[HOCOLITE]

At Titterstone Clee we had a very brave! M65L who wanted an EOD which was more technical than the CC on offer so took on M21L. He completed the course in 3 hours + he did seem a little disappointed that he may be last! Mind you an M55L also did it and was a fair way up the field in around 90mins. But what else do you expect from A Hemsted

[Mrs H]

Astonishingly GG won 2 of the 3 days on the nail in 67 minutes The other day was 64 - a multi-day concession.

[rosco]

This discussion has really only come about because Eddie planned for a 75mins winning time for the best and not 67mins for one of the best.

His courses were great and a real test but definitely a bit long.

I must say though I was amazed how difficult I found it to get any pace at all on the terrain at Rogie. If it wasn't scarey rocky then it was marshy and if it wasn't marshy it was really steep.

I'm certainly not as fit as some but am equally loads fitter than others so knowing how much I struggled it must have been a real trial for those guys.

Of course it doesn't help when you keep on being a muppet and going on scenic detours....

[EddieH]

I am sure some are thinking this is going on a bit, but without Nopesport I'd be planning my next regional to 75 mins, so I have benefitted as will all those that don't want to go so far next time I plan.

[harry]

Eddie, ignore the moaners & plan your next regional to 75mins. There are too few long races in the UK. To me Rogie felt really fast and runnable, it's certainly not as tough as some SOL terrain.

Yeah we have technical guidelines but if the guidelines are wrong I reckon maverick people like Eddie should continue to ignore them.

I'd like to see the SOL series evolve back towards having elite classes. There are 7 SOL races, perhaps we could have 2 x middle races (smaller areas), 3 x 21L length courses and 2 x elite long races (75/90 WT). I think this is what Kitch is pushing for..?

This doesn't mean the vets/junior/short courses can't be scaled down to whatever the people want. But maybe they too would like to compete over slightly variable distances too?

Years ago the AROS series lead the way in "short racing" nowadays we do not compete over IOF lengths. Where are all the middle and long races? Sprint racing is taking off but now it's always sprint or 3/4 length classics. Scotland, with so much great terrain, should lead the way again!

[Kitch]

I would very much like to see Elite courses back at SOLs.
My proposal for this would be to make available an optional loop at the end of the Long course.
This way M21L get to compare a common section of the course with M21E.
i.e. you don't fractionalise your classes.
So Elite = Long plus
I think there could be a great incentive to some 21L runners to try and keep pace with Elites over the shorter distance.

I started to talk to SIman about how this might be achieved (but I did'nt progress) with runners passing through a special finish lane, picking up an extra loop and carrying on.

Its an idea you could extend
M21E = M21L+ = M21S+ (i.e. M21E = M21S++)
12km ..... 9km ..... 5km
you'd need a 5k, a 4k and a 3k loop
each loop providing a course in its own right for other classes.
In this way you could even drop the 21L length a little if that suited the majority - simply extending the additional Eite loop to compensate.

Even if no-one does the Elite - you've lost nothing as the courses get used anyway.
If someone decides they've bitten off more than they can chew they could bail out after 1 or 2 loops and still get a result.

electronic timing and Condes planning/printing should all make this easy (once you get your head round it).
It requires adjacent start and finish, good planning and I guess the right areas - but I think Scotland should be able to provide such areas a few times a year.

[graeme]

I'd like to see the SOL series evolve back towards having elite classes.
I think this is what Kitch is pushing for..?

The main thing Kitch has been pushing for is the elites to actually show up to SOL races. We had elite classes once, but then the elite stopped coming, and we lost them. At Rogie there was only one 21 in the top three on W21L, and none on M21L.

Use it or lose it.

Graeme

PS. There are full length classics coming soon at the Scottish Champs, and shortly after at the UK Cup final.

[EddieH]

Yeah Kitch I like that idea, but it would not have worked well at Rogie. The assembly would need to be miles from parking and even then I could not get anything like the quality of course that I managed for most. The trouble ith lots of loopa is that they make long legs harder to come by.

[Becks]

Think that's a bit unfair to count me as the only 21 in the top three at Rogie, as Hazel and Sarah have both run very competitively in the W21E at the major events this year. In fact out of the 8 competitors on the course, 5 are top 10 JK/British W21E athletes. Considering how few of us there are out there, that's a pretty impressive elite turn out. Still doesn't mean it's necessarily worth the effort on the planner's behalf to produce an elite course for such a small number.

[EddieH]

Becks, it'd probably be more rewarding than planning red which required more unique controls than t had competitors.

[Gross]

Years ago the AROS series lead the way in "short racing"!

[awk]

I think what this debate underlines to me is that for many people, it's the distance/time and closeness of the competition that matters much more than whether that competition is of similar age. Which begs the question, why are all events above district totally age class based at TD5? Some of the time, yes, competing against your age peers is what is wanted, but most of the time it's competing against your peers in terms of ability/fitness that generates the real fun. (And given that many of those on M50 are anyway more my age peers than many in my current class, M45, makes the case even stronger to me).

Think that's a bit unfair to count me as the only 21 in the top three at Rogie, as Hazel and Sarah have both run very competitively in the W21E at the major events this year.

Well, with the greatest respect to both of them, it's not unfair at all - they factually aren't, and underlines my point above. The age category is irrelevant - it's the ability/fitness that counts. Also underlines the oddity of our labelling: any other sport would simply call it Women's elite or similar.

At the end of the day, it's not that the M21L was long that Jason is complaining about, but that the course which was open to him was too long for which he wanted, and had a reasonable expectation of getting: most people don't run a short course to be out for 85m+ which, looking at the W21L times on the same course, was quite reasonable.

[Kitch]

I fully agree with AWK that it is competition against similar abilities that people really seek and at smaller events age classes can become a distraction

and Graeme is just mischief making quoting stats on who is a 21.
5 elite competitors on the women's, 3 on the men's

Yes
first I want elite runners to turn up to SOLs
No body is going to put on a course for a class of competitor that doesn't show up.
I've been encouraging it this year
and maybe sometime we can get some extended courses layed on - in the right areas.
and - as per previous - without having to do anything that is barely used

[graeme]

make available an optional loop at the end of the Long course.

There's no need to have it at the end - that only compromises the planning. Could be an extended section as in the Scottish Relays, or an extra "butterfly wing" at some point.

Looping it off the M45-50 course would give stiffer competition in SOLs than using M21L - and a bit of pere pressure too .

[Kitch]

nice