Shocked

[openadventure]

The wife and I went along to a local Orienteering event this evening in the lakes - the LOC technical series. As the wife is not so confident on the navigation we decided to travel around as a pair and enjoy the evening run.

The first checkpoint proved illusive not just to us but to about 20 other people on the same course, so when somebody found it a throng of people moved towards it (100m from where I thought it was - I can't be sure it was misplaced). The whole course like it or not turned it to a follow the leader.

About half way through, my wife Lisa was about 20m in front of me heading for a control when she went straight over on to her face, pretty nastily on some uneven ground. As she laid on the floor must have been 10 people ran past her on the ground and didn't utter a word to she if she was OK - but headed straight for the control. It was dog eat dog, you got the feeling that if she was in the way they would have trampled over her.

I'm still in shock, what happens to common courtesy in O events does it go out of the window in the name of competition. In other events its either a written or unwritten rule that if you see an injured competitor you must help.


A confused IND. Oh by the way the wifes OK, she picked herself up and carried on.

James Thurlow
Open Adventure



What Went Wrong?

This is the story of four people: Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody. There was an important job to be done, and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it. Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it. Somebody got angry, because it was Everybody’s job. Everybody thought that Somebody would do it. But nobody asked Anybody. It ended up that the job wasn’t done, and Everybody blamed Everybody, when actually Nobody asked Anybody.

[eddie]

although you can't excuse these actions its a very british/english disease

you see it everywhere these days a combination of laziness and apathy mean people don't give a damn.

however i'm being very two faced because i'm as guilty as the next person. as you alude to i'm the person who things somebody else will help out.

there's my two pence

yours

Oldman of Dalry

[Ant W]

Well, I can only answer for myself. If it was the run-in at the JK relays or something like that I might not stop to help (ie if there were plenty of spectators around), but ordinarily I would always ask if someone was OK if I saw them falling in front of me, or if I found them on the ground in distress. I would have thought that the majority of orienteers would do the same.

[Darwin]

It's a well-researched syndrome that people don't intervene in street crime situations because, rather than despite, the fact that there are a large number of onlookers. The same syndrome applies here - in fact it's a psychological cliche - nothing particular to orienteers.

Had your wife been alongside any one other runner, you can guarantee that they would have asked if she was ok - as always happens to me when I regularly fall over.. I was very touched that a small girl stopped to check I was OK at the recent Bigland event.

[FromTheGrassyKnoll]

At last weekend's SE Score event I was on my way to the finish... my watch showed I had 90 seconds of my 60 mins left.

A small boy approached me and asked if I could tell him where he was as he was lost...

Major dilemma

[RichT]

I went to last nights event on the best bit of Graythwaite Estate and was going to come on and wax lyrical about the evening - cloudless sky, amazing terrain, map having the paths and walls removed to add to the testing course, lots of smiling faces at the end.

So its a bit sad to hear of your experience. Personally I've never experienced what you describe, and it is difficult to comment on exact circumstances when you haven't seen them.
I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, so do you think there was any possibility that people realised that you were shadowing your wife and would be looking after her ?

Oh, and I helped the organiser by collecting in the first few controls and can confirm that it was in the correct place. What made the location difficult (for all controls) was that the flags were laid on the ground with the control boxes weighing them down. In my run I must have nearly stepped on the flag for the first control without seeing it although I'd navigated to the correct crag. It was after the first couple of controls that I realised I'd have to be standng at the control site before I'd see the flag.

Hope you enjoy Bigland next Wednesday.

[andy]

I always stop and ask if somebody who has fallen over is ok, and haven't had to stop yet, but i definitely would if someone needed help.

[Mrs H]

I think this is a most unusual and unfortunate incident, I always ask and always have been asked when I fall flat on my face - sometimes by some quite young children -it would be interesting to know what was in the minds of those who ran past her - any of you reading this?

[FatBoy]

Hi James. I hope Lisa is ok.

Having orienteered many (25?) years I do think that the camaradery in the forest has dwindled. Even when I was competitve in the old days a joke or two about the nasty climb or the weather was common place. I wouldn't expect such a thing from the elite, or in a big race, but you don't seem to get in on Wednesday informals any more. Contrast that with Trailquest or Adventure Racing and I find a very social race with everybody waving and nodding as you pass each other, even the elite. If you have a puncture everybody who passes asks if you need help, never mind an injury. I wonder why adventure racing attracts new competitors and orienteering doesn't?

[seabird]

Similar experience to most posters. Whenever I have fallen (or yelped) someone nearby, if there is someone,has always asked whether I'm ok. At JK a friend badly gashed his forehead and was accompanied back to assembly by a fellow competitor (club member) who abandoned their run.

That's my positive experience of fellow orienteers and it has not changed over the years.

[NeilC]

Is it a British disease, or is the disease just to think that it is a British-specific disease?

In response to Fatboy's comments I had a number of conversations with people at the JK whilst slogging up one hill or another.

I also stopped to help a lost child on Day 3 (and then missed Championship by 2 seconds).

Like Seabird I haven't noticed a change in attitude - certainly not with us non-elites.

[openadventure]

Alan - I can't call you Fatboy aint right..

Tricky to compare orienteering, trailquests and adventure races, and arguably dangerous ground for me. But it does come in stark contrast to two recent events.

At the Wan Dae 8 hr Adventure Race in Scotland over the weekend a couple locked handlebars whilst cycling the lady went over the handlebars and broke her collar bone. Another pair stopped to help, trashing their race - which to put this in to context cost them £70 to enter and they had travelled a few hundred miles to the race.

At the final Mintcake MTB TQ event, the tyre on our tandem shreaded 3km to the end - numerous people stopped to check we had all the tools, inner tubes we needed - including one elite who was clearing the course and was in to penalties.

The decision is easy if its a 10 year old girl in tears. What if it is a middle aged man who is throwing up with exhaustion, dehydrated and completely lost.

As an aside I do agree it was great use of an area to delete the paths and walls it made it a challenging event - think the controls should be on stakes to prevent the follow the leader.

No worries
James

If not me, who?
If not now, when?
If not here, where?

[Kitch]

I often go flying

I don't expect anyone to stop unless I stick my bloodied face in front of them and say something like
"Kirsten could you get some kind of rescue out here?"
or
"err yeah I think I'm ok but can you tell me where we are?" followed by "Hi Jon, where the [Nope} am I, I already asked one guy but I forgot already"

that said - my experience is that if people think you are hurt they check you are ok -

[Nails]

Yep tend to agree with Kitch. If she had asked for some help i'm sure many would have been forthcoming. I also wouldn't expect anyone to give me a second look. If I was badly hurt i'd let them know about it!

[rosco]

i've certainly stopped to tell kitch where he was when he loomed in front of me covered in blood but it obviously didn't do much good....