SinS first closing date

[Mrs H]

...and while we're on the subject of regional event closing dates - the first (cheap) closing date for SinS is Monday 23rd April (mext Monday). when the event ceases to be exceptional value at the equivalent of £7.33 per day (BOF members) and just £2 per first junior and only £1 per second and subsequent junior per day (incredible but true) if you enter every day and becomes just really good value instead at £8/£3/£2 a day for all three days- so what are you waiting for - the camping's cheap too - if you all share a tent

[Vidalos]

Have eneterd today, thanks for the reminder

Thought there was something wrong with the entry page as the childrens entries were so cheap!!!

[RJ]

Harrop Tarn entry for the second junior is also £1.

So..... why is there a cheap entry date and then an increase as we get closer to the event? What has suddenly become more espensive for the organisers that they have to squeeze more money out of us? I am so disappointed with this two and three entry fee level structure.... it is just a poorly thought out.... (scam???)

[Mrs H]

I think thats a rather disappointing post from you RJ - as I've just pointed out - the early entry fees are genuinely cheaper and only come up to the more usual rate after the first date. I see you are charging £7.50 and and a whooping £3.50 for first juniors. To call it a poorly thought out scam is quite frankly a bit of an insult and completely unfounded!. This is a multi-day event over an English Bank Holiday and we have to commit for toilet hire well in advance plus we have other outlays not normally associated with regional events to do with the camp site etc - those bills are already coming in and have to be paid.

[RJ]

...... This is a multi-day event over an English Bank Holiday and we have to commit for toilet hire well in advance plus we have other outlays not normally associated with regional events to do with the camp site etc - those bills are already coming in and have to be paid.

poppycock..... how does the entry level up to the first closing date give you numbers for the event that will define the number of toilets you require????

Camp site fees that have to be paid..... there will always be folk who enter ANY event early and will give the club/event the funds needed to pay up front. I can't think of any club that will not be able to meet all pre-event expenses from funds in their own bank. Most clubs, as has been mentioned on this forum many times, have large bank balances.

In my opinion there aren't any good reasons to have these multi event fee structures, and the sooner they are done away with the better. We don't need penalties..... of whatever flavour.... to make entering an event punitive just because it is now fourteen days before the event!! We need increased participation, not silly barriers that make folk less likely to turn up on the day, or to enter at the last moment. Late entries just get a start time to suit the organisers!!!!!!...... as a competitor that is the downside!

[Mrs H]

I don't think you're paying attention, I'm not offering penalties, I'm offering incentives - no-one has to enter early - they'll only have to pay the usual rates if they enter late - where's the penalty there?

anyway - we won't be expecting you

[RJ]

OK..... I was having a rant.... over for the moment.

A suggestion for clubs to consider for the future.... do away with the deadline dates..... offer a cheap entry level to the first "x" competitors, say the first 200. With online entry systems it can all be transparent.

Those people who have the desire to save money.... can! And those who need to leave things late because they find it impossible to plan their lives in advance can pay a little more.

[HOCOLITE]

Have you tried to balance start times when people are phoning pleading for entries, and changing things. We'll put you down for entries for 2009 and then set the closing date to two days before, how are you on 48 hours without sleep
Think about the volunteers not just participation

[RJ]

That's exactly what we are doing for Harrop Tarn. Closing date two days before. But if you check out the http://www.oentries.com site you will see that start times are being allocated as entries come in. That way you know NOW when your start time is. If you need to change because circumstances have altered then turn up on the day and get an altered time.

If you enter late you will have to take a start time that is available..... not neccessarily one to exactly suit your needs. Perhaps two people sharing transport will not have adjacent start times..... it doesn't matter anyway, does it?

On line entries have made the whole process so much easier. No typing in of details.... no envelopes to open...... no final details to send out.... etc... etc. Things are very much easier for the volunteers, it is no longer one of those onerous, time absorbing jobs. A regional event with 500 or so is not that bad!!

[SeanC]

I like the idea of being able to enter 2 days before hand (if it can be done without increasing the organising clubs workload), and getting the computer to do as much work as possible, but I'm dont like the easyjet/ryan air pricing model of making the first batch of entries sold cheaper.

This style of pricing allows companies to market their products as being cheaper than they really are. Applied to regionals, it might reduce the web wingeing about prices, but if there are discounts to be given out I'd prefer they went to:
- complete newcomers (who enter EOD colour coded courses)
- families (who I'd have thought on average are going to enter a bit later given there's more people to organise)
- relative newcomers entering their first regional (who are likely to enter later)
- groups of students/schools etc (who will enter later for same reason as families)

Unfortunately the early booking discount is more likely to go to the O addict /nopesport reader who regularly checks the fixtures list and is probably going to go anyway. Maybe this group deserve to pay less, but if the aim is to increase membership and participation.......

Still, interesting idea. And some entertaining banter between Mrs. H and RJ.

[Roger]

On line entries have made the whole process so much easier.

Agreed -- I was entries sec last year for our regional event (~700 competitors). We closed the on-line entries at lunchtime on the day before the event, leaving 20 hours for sleeping (and getting the database loaded onto the Emit UK laptops).

We couldn't print maps on demand, but set map numbers a week ahead (and got them professionally printed), then were able to use the on-line entry system to enforce the limits. No more phone calls pleading for a map and promising a pigeon-borne cheque: do it on-line or take a risk on the day that your desired course will have no maps left.

No EOD surcharge: we'd rather sell the maps than bin them. Plenty of maps on the colour-coded courses, but limits declared to be rather tight on the others to provide an incentive to pre-enter. Entries on the day tend to stress the volunteers the most (including the poor volunteer who's got to 'clean up' all the information in the week after the event), whereas on-line pre-entries are almost completely painless. By leaving them open very late we were able to cater for the lame, the lazy and the indecisive without having to suffer the pressures of a large entry on the day.

Early entries were cheaper though, to give the club some reassurance on numbers.

The whole experience was much more relaxed than my previous attempt to do the job, when 1/3rd of the entries arrived within a day either side of the 'closing date' two or three weeks before the event, and the envelopes, phone calls and e-mails continued to arrive in considerable numbers until the Friday night before the event.

And of course late on-line entry is good for the competitor, too.

[Mrs H]

offer a cheap entry level to the first "x" competitors, say the first 200. With online entry systems it can all be transparent.

Those people who have the desire to save money.... can! And those who need to leave things late because they find it impossible to plan their lives in advance can pay a little more.

Why introduce quotas? Cheap entries for all who get themselves sorted (and Sean - speaking from experience families tend to be better organised not worse as they usually have a "boss" in charge)

A "well-known" family of 6 have just entered at an average cost of £3.28 per person per day (that cheaper than first junior at Harrop ) and they will pay about 70 pence per person per night to camp (I've had to pay more than that for a hot shower before now).

I really think RJ has picked on the wrong event to have a go at - let alone use words like "scam" and "poppycock". the early rate is incredibly good value and the late rate is probably still below average (let alone all the Extra Value I'm planning)

But he can carry on ranting if he likes as the entry rates have risen dramatically since he started -I don't think anyone who has entered think they are being ripped off.

and anyway - they're are early entry dates and early entry dates. This one is only about a month before the event anyway and the late entry date goes pretty close to the event.

[RJ]

...... I'm offering incentives - no-one has to enter early - they'll only have to pay the usual rates if they enter late - where's the penalty there?

anyway - we won't be expecting you

Just like Sir Bernard you are being economical with the truth.... your website says the STANDARD entry fees of £8 per day cease on April 23. After that you have a surcharge.... £10 per day. EOD is £12 per day. As far as I can see these are all increases in the fees and are exactly what I was drawing attention to in my original post. They are not necessary.... they don't enhance the participation promotion at all.... in fact those that hear about the event late and turn up on the day to have a go are severely penalised, with a 50% surcharge.

Anyway.... rant over....
I really enjoyed the last SinS I attended. Looks like we will be enjoying a District event in Eskdale that weekend!!!!

[Mrs H]

It is of course - you - who is being economical with the truth - all through this thread I have quoted rates which apply to entry for all three days - and stated so . £22 for three days = £7.33 (+1P if you want to be pedantic). This is a multi-day event and that is what we are promoting - and as Hocolite pointed out, that carries it's own extra work with balanced timesetc. Stop sniping.

It is generally considred to be bad man-management to scold and tell everyone else off for doing what is the norm when you are doing something different (and as yet unproven)

Have you thought of the following approach - something along these lines
"Hey everyone - we're trying a new system for regional event entry which we think will be of benefit to the sport - and it goes like this - we'll let you know how we get on afterwards - it might be something you all would want to try - any way - carry one with the good work
all the best RJ"

Now isn't that nicer than your (self-confessed) ranting?

[SeanC]

All this disagreement! Is this a cunning plan to publicise the SINS closing date?