JK Relays

[Forest Gump]

Whenever I heard stories of people mispunching or being dsq with electronic punching I had suspicions that it was a personal fault. But on Sunday Marcus Pinker was initially disqualified for not registering a punch only to be reinstated because it was on his back up card - so he obviously put his emit brick all the way into the unit (which is slower) and it still didn't register - this is kind of concerning as it implies a lack of consistency.

I was gutted to get dsq on leg 1 of the JK trophy. I was sure that I punched every control properly (don't trust this fast punching lark), but never thought to check the electronic display (trying to hard maybe, or just not enough experience of using it??). When I finished found I'd been disq at a control I know I punched properly and it was the correct one (with at least 3 other witnesses). Had no backup card as apparently it was stuck on a previous control - in hindsight should have checked the brick display, but can't understand why it didn't register...so agree with you Toni about the lack of consistancy. - A lesson for me though (it's the 1 and only time I've ever been dsq at a relay as it is so gutting for the rest of the team.....and when I'd had such a good run as well!!!)

On the whole though a great weekend

[ali. f.]

Agree it was a fantastic relay area-really loved the whole atmosphere of the place. just one thing though- the maps in envelopes...don't think this worked as they were hard to get out especially on first leg with the added confusion of a mass start it was really quite hard. Also, the start didn't seem to work, people crossing over each other, don't know about anyone else, but i was a bit scared i was going to get trampled by someone!
However, that said, it was a great area, really interesting and an althogether fantastic weekend, thanks to everyone involved!

[Rich R]

I thought this JK was one of the best yet and the Relay area and day as a whole were supurb whoever I went into this weekend not quite trusting EMIT and and now like it even less.

Day 2 on the M21E, Mr Speake over took me on the run in after catching 6minutes and punched around 1-2 seconds in front of me on an adjacent unit, he therefore should have beaten me by around 6:01. Well here are the results:

3 Matthew Speake EBOR GBR 33:09 5.3
27 Richard Robinson NOC GBR 39:00 6.3

Matt only beat me by 5:51 as it was a timed start the units must have been a full 10 seconds out! This could have affected quite alot of results.

[distracted]

Rich -> Emit is significantly different from SI in that there is no timing in the units, it is solely in the cards. All the units do is tell the card the number of the unit. So units being 10 seconds out just doesn't wash.

There did seem to be some sort of synchronisation issue on Day 2 between the timed start and the download set-up, judging by the difference between by splits to the first control on the card and on the splits print out I reckon they were at least 40 seconds out for my run... However it was perfect on Day 3, don't know whether the server crashing on Day 2 caused this problem.

[FatBoy]

The only thing that would account for what RichR says is if the time of day in the download laptops weren't in synch. Which is quite worrying. It's one thing the laptops not quite being in synch with the timed start which affects everybody equally, although arguably makes a minor difference to badge times etc. However the laptops not being in synch with each other which means it affects people in different ways. Not a problem with Emit per see, but more of using Emit on a timed start.

[Snail]

I wasn't there, so apologies if this is a stupid comment, but exactly how does a timed start with Emit operate?

Since the clock is in the card and not the stake, does this depend on all cards being exactly synchronised, or does card timing only actually start from when the first control is punched?

The few Emit events I have been to have used a punching start to start the card clock - even if you were told when to go.

[rosalind]

The card was started from when your card was checked before the start. But then the time of your run was adjusted according to your allocated start-time. Think the card already had knowledge of this...?

[Stodgetta]

As I understand it, your card is switched on as you go through the pre-start, and then records when it is punched.

When you download, the computer you download at knows when your start time was, and works out the elapsed time according to its clock since your start time, calculating splits and finish time from that. That's why the emit brick is still going once you finish.

In theory, if the individual download computers had different time settings, your race time will be different depending on which one you download at (as explained by Fatboy).

[rocky]

that explains, but doesn't excuse, something which perplexed me about my result on saturday. i timed my race with my watch on saturday, but my watch time was around 10s slower than my splits time, despite the fact that i definitely started my watch after i started - i remember it didnt work first time, so it was as i picked my map up i started it, but i definitely stopped it as i crossed the line.

looks like i downloaded at the same computer as rich! in my case it didn't make a difference to either the on the day result or the overall, but if it had happened in the sprint....

[distracted]

but if it had happened in the sprint....

So that's why they had a punching start on the sprint

[rocky]

oh yeah. forgot about that, friday was a long time ago! but about that, the commentary would have been a lot more accurate had the punching start been on the startline (common in most emit-using countries) rather than a few metres beyond it: just hold your brikke in until the long beep and on you go.

[jab]

On Day 2 my son caught up with the runner 3 minutes ahead of him who then outsprinted him on the run in. But the other boy ended up with a time 3.01 slower than Aidan when the difference should have been slightly less than 3 minutes. So there was definitely something slightly odd going on. I'm just mentioning it to add to the anecdotal evidence because for some races/courses the difference would matter.

[Stodgetta]

I did hear rumours (from people who were part of the IT team) that they were using a timing start at the sprint race even though it appeared to be a punching start.

I didn't hear that until after my run, when I kindly let someone punch start ahead of me because they looked faster than me...looking at my splits now, my no 1 is ~10 seconds down on those around me. I don't think I was that slow to no 1

[andy]

oh yeah. forgot about that, friday was a long time ago! but about that, the commentary would have been a lot more accurate had the punching start been on the startline (common in most emit-using countries) rather than a few metres beyond it: just hold your brikke in until the long beep and on you go.

this sounds like an extremely simple way of doing things, and seems mostly foolproof - maybe some sort of standard should be set?

I can see problems with this when there are ~30 people starting at the same time though (unless you have 30 start units to spare!)

[FatBoy]

I'm a big believer that all events that aren't mass start should be punching starts. It makes the IT so much simpler. I guess the reason against it is to ensure people start at the right time, but that's a man management issue, not an IT one. It would require an IOF rule change though...