GPS: Am I cheating?

[Simon E]

The use of any artificial aid other than a compass is prohibited.

During the competition the only navigational aids that competitors may use are the map and control descriptions provided by the organiser, and a compass.

Where does this leave me with my Garmin Forerunner 205GPS watch? Several people are now using similar devices to record routes, which can prove very interesting for later analysis.

If you'd asked me the question before I bought it I'd have said that it would be of no use whatsoever for orienteering, and you'd be much better off sticking to the map and compass. This is still true as regards overall navigation, but there is one feature of the watch I wasn't expecting and which is clearly of great use. It will tell you how far you have run on the current lap, and so allows you to check your pace counting or work out how far you have gone if you forgot to pace count in the first place.

You can configure what fields are displayed whilst you are running (speed, distance, height, calories!, direction, time of sunset and all sorts of other things) so you have the option of not displaying distance of the current lap.

If I wanted to wriggle around the rules I'd say I wasn't using it as a navigational aid. Given the number of devices that are now appearing we may need to consider some guidance on how to interpret the rules. So how about some options:

1) GPS devices are banned from all events.

2) GPS devices are banned from Level X events and above (choose your favourite X. e.g. Level 3 = Regional Events).

3) GPS devices are allowed, but competitors are trusted not to refer to them for useful information during the race.

4) A combination of 3 for "minor events" and 2 for "more important" events.

5) GPS devices may be carried and used at all events.

I think I know roughly my thoughts, but let's see what others think.

[m4rk]

agree with no.2 - i can see why such devices would be useful for training purposes but unfair for actual competition if only because many people wouldnt be able to afford the technology until it decreases in price a bit

[Peter B]

My understanding of the rules is that artifical navigation aids such as GPS are barred. I fail to see how carrying a watch which displays statistics based on GPS information is cheating, unless it does actually display current location on a map (which I fail to fathom from the article)

[RJ]

The information that is available for post race analysis is of such incredible value to the individual and the sport that we must find a way of allowing their use. If they can just be benign and record route data for later analysis.... fine. If they can be used to enhance interpretation of your location on the map then we need to determine the extent of that information.

The basic information of the route you took is so valuable to the enhancement of the sport. Being able to display the winners' routes of the various courses will do wonders for the sport. And it is particularly valuable the higher the level of the event, as the standard of the competitor increases. It will certainly explain 'route choice' and make orienteering more exciting.

If the map displays no GPS data/grid then it won't be possible to reference it and you will still need to navigate from the contours!

[Paul Frost]

I would like to think that 3 would work.

In my case, I use an Edge 305 which is designed for bikes, so it doesn't have a strap. I carry mine underneath a wide wrist sweatband so I can't see it anyway.

I am not a very good orienteer and even I can't see any real benefit of measuring distance any more accurately than pace counting. With the speed that good orienteers run at I can't see how they could use it without slowing themselves down. There is no locating benefit as there are no grids on an O map to reference to.

The developer of RouteGadget Jarkko Ryyppö told me that he wore his in a sock attached to the back of his O top. So perhaps another solution is just to carry it where it can't be referred to during the race.

[mharky]

[quote="Peter B"I fail to see how carrying a watch which displays statistics based on GPS information is cheating[/quote]

you're right, how is having your watch tell you that you have run the 400m from the track junction and should now start looking for the control cheating?...

[Carnage Head]

I ran with someone in the KIMM (did not know him - last minute pairing) - whose watch had a built-in altimeter...

...and I'm ashamed to say that he used the function once (I didn't want to upset the applecart with my newly-found partner by stopping him) - on a short stretch of contouring in the fog.

So, should watches with altimeters be reassessed - or are altimeters found in all GPSs?

[Safety]

I was considering posting on this very same subject. I bought a Forerunner 305 (305 has a Heart rate and Bicycle cadence as well) in Autumn and have found it useful for the training runs I have done. I have used it on a couple of orienteering course but never for large competitions only local colour coded, Cambridge Sprint O' and a training event in sheffield.

Having used it on these courses I can see that it could be used to aid navigation:

1; as stated above: instead of pacing the device could be used to measure distance from a point.
2; a rough "map" can be called up on the device's display (approx 1"x2"). By map this is a line showing the path you have followed and the direction you are going in. since you pressed start. At first I didn't think this would be of any help however in hindsight it could be used to see if you have traveled in a straight line or drifted left/right whilst on a bearing.

This may seem, for serious competition, a very large advantage however the time it takes to go through the menus to call this up would be longer than the time it would gain you (unless you can get it to scroll with the lap times and heart rates which I haven't tried).

I do agree that the data gained of this particularly following heart rate v's pace & elevation across the course is of great value for training purposes but I am not sure you can leave the door open to the opportunity of abuse. I feel a rule would have to be placed on all GPS devices and you cannot single out individual devices as allowable or not. Seeing some devices will allow you to upload and view a zoomed in 1:25 000 map I feel that this would be too great an advantage (remember most of the old style devices are used to guide sailing ships into marina's so the ability to put maps and charts on them is normal).

Rule 3 would work, however we come down to "trust" again as we have done with other issues (Crossing OOB / Boundaries / roads etc) and although we should be able to trust people not to do this you only need to look at previous nopesport discussions to see the contention that can become of this.

I don't see how 2 would work as for some people Level X could be the highest they are aiming to attain, where as for others it may just be a training event. Thus same argument for 4.

And the problem with 5 is it kind of defeats the object of getting round the course using techniques like compass and pacing. Also with the cost it is not open to everyone (similar arguments can be made for new style SI and E-mit cards as well I feel).

Which leaves us with rule 1, but how do you enforce any kind of ban on a watch. The three times I have used it no-one has been able to distinguish it from a large watch and by displaying the time on the main screen why would they unless they had one or I told them. So is this a new check at the start "correct SI Card number, whistle and waterproofs, oh and show us your wrists whilst we check for GPS's," it starts to become a bit ridiculous.

Despite all these arguments against, I would love to be able to freely use the watch at all events and feel that rule 3 "trust" is the only one we can use. At the minute are we not trusting people not to take them and use them? In terms of usefulness, the ability to gain an advantage is there but as the highest level of accuracy I have ever gained on mine is +/-6m in all directions (including vertical) whilst standing on the top of an open hill. Is it really any more accurate than pacing?

I would like to know how the use of cycle computers is seen in MTBO because do they not give the same distance information and no-one asked me to disconnect mine on the only MTBO course I have done.

Finally I apologise this is so long, but I agree it is a topic that needs a discussion and felt I should put all my points of view across. And for information purposes, the two compotitions I took the GPS out on:

Local colour coded: I was already declared non-competitive as I hung half the controls, and because I was so engrossed in using my new toy I misspunched.

Cambridge sprint O': anyone attending this will no I dropped out halfway round because I couldn't read a part of the map (colour blindness again).

So I gained no advantage by taking it, having made these arguments I won't be using it on an Orienteering course until any decision is reached. And apart from the fact I have, here, admitted to having one I don't see how anyone would know I was carrying it on a course.

Thanks for reading and I assure you I will take great notice in any posts here.

P.S. Are heart rate monitors an advantage on a course. Keeping yourself from running too hard? maybe another discussion point.

[swat]

Carnage Head - no need to feel ashamed, altimeters are allowed on mountain marathons like the KIMM/OMM and LAMM tho' GPS is banned. This has been the ruling for quite a few years now. I'm not sure what the thinking behind this is - I suspect that at the time the rule was introduced wrist worn altimeters were available and hard to differentiate from a watch so were allowed. Now that GPS units are watch sized the discussion reappears. That said, having an altimeter is an advantage but takes a degree of skill/knowledge to use, a GPS would take a lot more of the fun out.

[RJ]

I think a lot of this is a fuss about nothing. The basic skill in orienteering is interpreting the mapper's picture of the area and relating it to the shape of the ground around you, locating various features as you progress around the course. Good orienteers manage to simplify the map to enhance their navigation. Many good orienteers don't even use a compass, they are in perfect contact with the map at all times.

We are perhaps over estimating the power of all these 'tools' which may or may not help your navigation. Compasses are useful, but when they are used as the main navigation tool, they often fail because you stop reading the map!

So long as the map doesn't have GPS grid/data on it then it won't be possible to reference your location from the GPS unit.

Running for 400m (pace counting) on a compass bearing doesn't guarantee you will arrive at the control, no more than your watch telling you you have run 400m. Reading the map is where the skill lies. And finding a pit/depression 400m from a hill in a flat featureless forest..... that's real orienteering is it????

[DM]

The rules use the words "the use of any artificial navigational aid". Nothing is said about carrying artificial aids. This means the only person who knows if they have broken the rules is the runner themself, so it is a question of trust.

A ban at all events would be unworkable as it would need all start officials to be up to date with all the functions of all available models of GPS and HRM (some look similar to GPS now). From Simon's suggestion I would say option 2 is the most suitable but maybe shift the cut off point up to C2. How any change in the rules/tightening up of the wording is made workable is another issue, if you put notes in the final details some will say they don't read these, put them on the map and people will say it's too late..., one thing everyone does is enter so maybe putting them on the entry form would work.

On the subject of HRM, some have an altimeter function but from experience it is not accurate enough for orienteering and sometimes throws a complete wobbly by greatly exaggerating ascent. How do you climb 100 m when using a bike on a trainer in the garage? For me the benefit comes when comparing how hard you think you have been running on a course to how fast your heart has been going. In most races there are legs where you felt you were running hard but the record suggests that you were running slower than you could (obviously you allow for the terrain). Analysing which type of leg this is makes you try a bit harder next time you have similar leg.

[Schnitzy]

Is your GPS a map? No
Is it a compass? No (not really)
Will it give you an advantage over others without one? Yes

Then it should not be used in competition.

If it states in the rules that no aid to navigation other then a map and compass can be used, then why is there this discussion? Lets keep it simple, thats the joy of this weird and wonderful sport!!!

[Guest88]

Ok, I think I would strongly consider option 5 for non-serious competitions (I would say regional and below) although preferably if it didn't create additional work it would be good if it were in some way declared.

My reasoning for saying this is that various friends of mine have tried to introduce their partners to orienteering events in the past, and sometimes they take to it very well, but sometimes they just don't pick up the knack of finding the controls too well, and resort to doing something else on a Sunday... If we are relaxed about navigational aids and ideally even GPS maps at a few events (although this is obviously more work) then this might allow them to enjoy a sport even though they don't have the natural skills.

More generally it might open up the sport a bit more to people who want to do a bit mroe than go for a walk around some paths following route markings, but not feel up to the challenge of the real thing (at least not initially).

So I guess I would be considering gps a bit like a spell-check.

[redkite]

I have the Garmin 305 and it is a great gadget/ toy. I have worn it for local events and then downloaded onto Google Earth etc. great for post run analysis. You can really see where you have made mistakes etc and how you have drifted off a bearing.
I have taken the device along to regional events and whilst I cannot see how you could get an advantage wearing one, I have always chickened out from putting it on and left it in the car.
Given how popular these devises are now getting the idea of some guidance from the powers that be would be good.

[FatBoy]

Many Adventure Races have rules such as this: (courtesy of Open Adventure this one)

GPS units are not referred to during an event (e.g. no wrist or handlebar mounts). They can be used for route logging if desired.

It comes down to trust I guess, but I can see at top level they just have to be banned full stop. So I guess 4 then. I don't know if perhaps GPS manafacturers would feel that there is sufficient market in a GPS device which just logs where you've been? Perhaps there already is such a device commercially available? One of these would seem to stop the argument.

Altimeters at mountain marathons - should be banned as far as I'm concerned. Just as helpful as a GPS on certain legs - e.g. contour along here at 550m and we'll find the little re-entrant.

Cycle computers on MTBO - the argument would be that you can't pace count on a bike therefore they have to be allowed. I never use one myself so maybe I'm biased but I would prefer to see these banned as well.

Navigation should be by map, compass and human in my opinion.