Hathersage & Burbage National Event

[Nails]

ISOM 2000:

211 Open sandy ground

An area of soft sandy ground or gravel with no vegetation and where running is slow.
Where an area of sandy ground is open but running is good, it is shown as open land



Generally if the weather has been dry then peat becomes quite firm, if its been wet in the previous few days then it becomes sticky and slow. I think the Open Sandy Ground symbol can be used to show open peaty ground --you were lucky yesterday that it was so firm. How else do you differenciate between what is basically moorland with vegetation and moorland without vegetation -its the same stuff underneath.

[Nails]

Am I talking about the big bits of tarmac and huge areas of limestone plateau on the top of burbage moor -no i'm not -stop being a fool.[/quote]

[Gnitworp]

Reply to your previous (the one before last) post, Nails:

Seems reasonable. (You intervened before I could post this)

I'm not trying to catch you out, I'm just seeking clarification.

[DM]

ISOM 2000:

211 Open sandy ground

An area of soft sandy ground or gravel with no vegetation and where running is slow.
Where an area of sandy ground is open but running is good, it is shown as open land



Generally if the weather has been dry then peat becomes quite firm, if its been wet in the previous few days then it becomes sticky and slow. I think the Open Sandy Ground symbol can be used to show open peaty ground --you were lucky yesterday that it was so firm. How else do you differenciate between what is basically moorland with vegetation and moorland without vegetation -its the same stuff underneath.

OK but why were some bits of peat soft and soaked and other bits of "peat" metres away hard and gritty on the surface?

If the symbol can be used for peaty no veg. areas aswell as sandy areas why does the legend not say this? Or change the description to something which covers open ground of any type with no vegetation. I didn't know what the symbol was until afterwards and was tending to use the differences in appearance more than anything else.

Thanks for the clarification of the definition.

[mharky]

The nature of being a time trial where it's pretty hard for an average person to work out what's going on.

Arguably the chasing sprint format can provide a lot more spectator interest in much the same way as the pursuit race has in biathlon - though personally I think the perfect format from this perspective would be a mass start one man relay with micro-o (and penalty loops as with biathlon)!

I think if they really want to market it to media, is to film it like they have been doinig at WOC, Jukola and TioMila. Tv controls out on the course, good split times results, and instead of this micro/penalty loop bullshit, they can just have normal controls and if they make a mistake then they take longer to find the control...

[Axel]

I also had a problem with 112 (course 6), but I put it down to my poor navigation because I was far to low for the control. I must have passed it 3 or 4 times and kept coming to control 111. However I must admit once I got into the wood from the moorland I was never happy with my navigation through the rocks.

At the end of the event I would have liked to run the leg again to see if I could make sense of my route to the control. However, I was shattered, pretty cold, had 2 children wanting to get home and a 3 to 4 hour drive ahead of me.

Really enjoyed the event, the physical challenge was great but have to admit my navigation let me down.

[Gross]

To whom? Any motorists driving past were hardly likely to stop and even if they did would runners
straggling in over a period of a few hours mean anything to them? Unless there was a commentary it's not even interesting for orienteers unless one knows the relevant start times - Let's face it Orienteering
never will be a spectator sport by its very nature

That kind of defeats the point of all BOF publicity etc etc etc

[Kitch]

Unless there was a commentary it's not even interesting for orienteers unless one knows the relevant start times - Let's face it Orienteering
never will be a spectator sport by its very nature

Or to put it another way
"I'm not interested in anything but my own run"


Your answer amply demonstrates that there is a need to break through the introspective attitude of many within the sport, before we even start worrying about passing motorists.
Gross' point is that if you don't make the effort then the situation will not change.

[Gnitworp]

Let's face it Orienteering
never will be a spectator sport by its very nature

Kitch, there's some truth in epocian's statement; only compromised versions of the original concept of orienteering (until recently called Classic) will attract spectators.

I'm not decrying or regretting these desirable new varieties.

The catalyst for change was probably the Park World Tour; one of the objectives of which was to televise proceedings.

Orienteering, it seems, can now be done inside a stadium; great fun and great sport, but definitely a compromised version of the 'adventure sport' conceived by Ernst Killander; I wonder what he'd think of it.

[SeanC]

Am a bit confused by this debate Surely the spectators are mainly going to be the competitors who finish early? Is the complaint that there was a better assembly area to park club (country?) tents and view the finishers

I dunno, these comments are perhaps a bit harsh on the planner/organiser as they might reasonably expect that everyone would plan to quickly scuttle off into their cars/the pub after the event based on the comments at the start of this tread.

Controllers/rules experts, do race guidelines/controllers guidelines etc mention the need to create a sociable atmosphere at the end of events?

[Gross]

Controllers/rules experts, do race guidelines/controllers guidelines etc mention the need to create a sociable atmosphere at the end of events?

IOF (and therefore BOF) stands by the Leibnitz convention which among other things tries to encourage spectator friendly areans.... a flag in the middle of a sodding wet bit of moorland when there is a nice field less than 200m away isn't the way forward. How often on Nope is publicity etc etc debated yet when it comes to actioning things it's back to the same old bad habits.... remote finishes do nothing, zilch, zero, for the promotion of our sport .

It's a joke.... (but like I said before... I'm not commenting on the courses or the quality of overall planning & organising etc which seemed perfectly ok & survived a bit of a windy day)

[gg]

http://tero1.free.fr/news/php/example1. ... t=&go=news

[tim sleepless]

http://tero1.free.fr/news/php/example1.php?subaction=showcomments&id=1164581173&archive=&start_from=&ucat=&go=news

Neat. I was thinking just the other day whether it was possible to do something supercompressed in an arena. I was thinking of something like Hickstead, where there's some interesting terrain/obstacles to watch runners get over, or a longmoor, Tweezedown, but I guess it'd work equally well on any racecourse or eventing type setting.

[NeilC]

Neat. I was thinking just the other day whether it was possible to do something supercompressed in an arena. I was thinking of something like Hickstead, where there's some interesting terrain/obstacles to watch runners get over, or a longmoor, Tweezedown, but I guess it'd work equally well on any racecourse or eventing type setting.

I pass through Hickstead on one of my (infrequent) training runs but had never really considered its orienteering potential. Not being particularly interested in show jumping I know little of what happens at these events. There is certainly potential for some spectator (TV-) friendly orienteering activities around the existing infrastructure. Whether they have a full entertainment program during the Derby weekend or could fit us in could be investigated. Any horsey (?) people out there better informed than I?

[tim sleepless]

They certainly used to have a number of events throughout the year, not just the Derby.

I'd certainly like to see a control on top of the Derby bank anyway.