Schools/Clubs Links

[brooner]

I'm sure theres a thread that this could have been tagged onto but its late in the day and I can't be bothered finding one...

Just saw this on the BOF website:

In a recent survey schools were asked to indicate the range of sporting activities they had provided during the 2005/06 academic year. An average of 16 different sports is provided in each school - an increase from the 2004/05 figure, which was 14.9, and the 2003/04 figure which was 14.5.

The most widely available sports are football (98%), dance (96%), gymnastics (95%), athletics (92%), cricket (89%) and rounders (87%). These have consistently been the most widely available sports over all three surveys. The survey also showed a number of sports have shown very big increases in availability over the three years that this study has taken place. Orienteering is one of these sports and participation in schools has risen from 46% to 55% in the two years. Development Manager, Hilary Palmer is very pleased with the increase and adds, "This survey demonstrates the impact the Development Team are having in introducing orienteering into schools."

Unfortunately the survey results give no details on orienteering in the Club Links section which leads onto the following, an announcement from the lib dems this morning (mainly on playing fields but see the lines in bold)

Liberal Democrat Shadow Culture, Media and Sport Secretary, Don Foster MP, who revealed the figure based on the UK’s high rate of children who drop out of sport when leaving school said:

“It’s alarming that up to three million children may drop out of sport altogether before 2012.

“The modest increase in playing fields announced today suggest Labour have only just begun to reverse the scandal that saw 5,000 concreted over while the Tories were in charge

“Yet these figures don’t show the full picture. We still have no idea how many small fields are being sold as these are not protected.

“Even then, protecting playing fields alone will not defuse the time-bomb of childhood obesity.

“Children need to be offered a wide and tempting menu of school sports.

“There must be stronger links between schools and sports clubs so it is easier for kids to find new facilities when they leave school.�

...
Notes:
2. Sports Minister Richard Caborn has accepted in response to Liberal Democrat questions that 70% of school children drop out of sport when they leave school.

· In a House of Commons debate on 7 Apr 2003 , Richard Caborn, the Minister for Sport, said: "It is a serious matter that 70 per cent. of young people who leave school and go into the world of work or higher education never return to active sport. In France, the figure is around 20 per cent." [Hansard, 7 Apr 2003, Col. 8]

While I appreciate that its great that participation is supposedly increasing in schools it has been repeatedly said on here that the emphasis on orienteering in schools doesn't keep young adults orienteering which is a problem facing british orienteering, and obviously a problem facing sport in general across the country. In reference to the issue with club links I know some clubs are highly successful with this but these are very much in the minority as far as i'm aware.

So how can this drop out rate be tackled?
What club links are/should be in place?

Not new questions I know, but its topical, and perhaps is something that should be responded to, related to what was mentioned here about approaching the government.

[gg]

Well as half (ish) school kids go to university next, clearly that is where lots of them drop out. Putting money into university sport is the next step.

School kids have parents and minibuses to take them to sport every day - when they go to uni this is not the case any more, and unless someone gives them the same opportunity, they will drop out.

Discuss

[Mrs H.]

Agree GG and doesn't your point tie in nicely with Beck's idea about training for the aspiring elite English squad - because unless you go to one of the very few elite orienteering universities or to a university with close links to an active and supportive club then you really will be facing an up hill struggle to continue orienteering at any significant level.

[elspeth]

We're finding it really hard to recruit new members (whether experienced orienteers or complete novices) principally because there is so much else on offer in Cambridge. A lot of people I've talked to about orienteering have said 'It sounds interesting, but I don't have time'. I'm not really sure how we can change that apart from raising the profile of the sport as a whole, thus pushing it up the priorities list!

Another key problem is also transport. I'm not sure exactly what its like at other unis, but few of us here have cars, and we can only have access to a uni minibus twice per term (new regs for hiring private minibuses require the driver being over 25 - ie not a student!) which severely restricts where we can go and what we can do as a club, in terms of getting to decent events/training areas. If we can solve that we might stand a better chance when recruiting!

[SeanC]

Brooner raises some interesting points, one that's not been discussed too much on nopesport is why many orienteers drop out in their late teens and early twenties.

There are probably many reasons as well as the lack of university orienteering clubs. Speaking from personal experience I dropped out of the sport when I was 20 even though there was at a uni with an orienteering club because:

1) injury limited my ability to train, so didnt enjoy the long courses that I felt obliged to compete in (and I didnt enjoy being beaten by those I used to beat!).
2) There wasnt much social life, which is what I really wanted - especially after leaving uni.

1) is something which individuals just have to come to terms with. Orienteering has improved in this respect though, with more short courses and local leagues (with short A courses).

2) is something that is still a big problem. Less of a problem for old gits like me who are happily married suburbanites with an established social circle, but imagine if you are 21, have just left home or uni, and moved to somewhere like London. Are you going to want to get up at 7am on a Sunday to go orienteering and speak to few (if any) people? Orienteering gets completely outcompeted by sports like hockey, rugby and football in this respect.

One possibility is second orienteering clubs for young adults, which could offer more of a social life as well as shared transport etc. I guess this is partly the idea behind ex uni clubs like JOK? London might be a good place to try this - especially as this is where many end up at this age. Maybe you could open these clubs up to students at universities without a uni O club.

[Matt L]

I fully agree that students need it to be made as simple and cheap as possible otherwise Orienteering will lose ou to naturally more accessible sports/ activities.

Could Unis liase with their locl clubs to overcome the transport problem?

Minibus / MPV pooling surely has potential. Can the over 25 problem be solved by getting an adult living nearby to drive, perhaps an ex student? I recognise it's probs unreasonable to ask someone to get up half an hour earlier to go pick up some students to ferry to the event out of the goodness of their hearts. But perhaps an almost full minibus could ensure the driver's orienteering day out became a free one?

[elspeth]

Thanks for the suggestion Matt. We do liase with WAOC to try and get lifts to those events which we can't get the MPV for. I hadn't thought of seeing if we can get an outside person to drive a hired mpv/minibus for us - the only problem I can foresee is the expence. We would have to know we can get enough people to fill the vehicle to make it worthwhile, and as a small club thats quite hard to do in advance! However, it worth looking into

[awk]

What hasn't been mentioned on here (but the thread is pretty much about this) are links between school and open club. Relying on juniors who have orienteered in a school club and then gone on to uni to still orienteer is a recipe for a high proportion of dropouts, although a few will continue.

The real need is to get juniors into the club structure well before uni. The challenge here is, of course, that for that to work, either the club has got to have a really good transport structure, or the parents have to be involved as well.

My (primary) school works on the principle that we can only introduce children to sports; we cannot take them much beyond beginner level ourselves (there simply isn't the time on the school calendar). If they show a real interest, then we encourage them to join the local club: we've had great success with this in hockey (over half the local club team were from our school last year), and football, some success in netball and table tennis, and there's the start (just the start) of something in orienteering. But that depends on the club having a junior structure, which is something that Aire are starting to tackle again.

It maybe a bit different at secondary level, but there are very few schools with the staff/expertise to do anything but the basics. For any youngster in any sport, if they are to develop, they have to go to clubs, and that means before joining up at university. How many clubs actually have a proper junior structure?

[gg]

i can sympathise with problems about minibus drivers
we have been lucky over my last 5 years at warwick to have almost a ready supply, the problem we sometimes have is getting a bus....
but od couldnt be more helpful in terms of lifts etc...

uwoc provide od with a number of good runners, od support uwoc as much as they can

this is one way forward, but if there was a program in place like the schools development program, specifically targetting recruitment and retention of members at university level, i can see the possibility for a lot more young adults entering or staying in the orienteering world

try tying in with other clubs such as hill and mountain walking club, mountaineering club, running clubs etc for new members.... we have a huge crossover with all (and also canoeing for some reason....)

[DM]

I was surprised by the figure of 55% of surveyed schools participating in Orienteering. Reading the report carefully it is clear that 55% of schools made Orienteering available or provided it. What the report does not clarify is just how much, in terms of hours per term/year, orienteering was participated in.

Our son has recently done a 2 day residential course which included Orienteering for 1 hour. The school can now quite easily tick the box saying they provided Orienteering and probably outdoor activities aswell. There were quite a few who enjoyed it and are potential recruits but only if they are offered the sport more regularly than once a year. Compare this to sports like football, rugby, tennis (why were they listed as competitive and not some of the others?) which have weekly participation. It would be nice to see the statistics drawn up based on hours of participation per sport. (Looking at some of the sports mentioned in the report I suspect there is also some double counting, a school sending pupils on an outdoor activity course could potentially tick, outdoor activities, mountaineering, canoeing and orienteering.)

Increasing the availability from 45 to 55% is however good and definitely a move in the right direction. Increasing the frequency must be the other part of the equation.

South Manchester has many of the school grounds mapped so there must be scope for a local league, which could help increase the 71% of pupils reported to take part in intra school activities?

I am trying to get a school team together for the British Schools event in November, offering transport, no cost to the school etc. Running through glue would be easier, teachers not interested, parents not sure etc, nothing that other people have not encountered.

Regarding club links, MDOC is linked to one school, St Richards, which has been using orienteering for several years with good successes at the British Schools events. On leaving the school very few continue, maybe due to transport problems. Whatever the issues are we and other clubs with similar links need to find a way to maintain the interest and continuity at the times people slip could drift away (junior to secondary school, secondary to college or university). MDOC members also organized an afternoon of orienteering for local schools which was well received and did get a few new people coming to local events.

[Lizi Beee]

MDOC are linked with Macc High and Fallibroom too, I think offering more secondary level stuff is the way forward, as this is when the more lasting likes/dislikes for sports are developed (well that's from experience of people at my high school).

Also Elspeth have you thought of hiring cars? I believe they are cheaper and work with a 21 age limit, plus if the club has smaller numbers it would be easier to fill.

[Nottinghamshire outlaw]

As many people have already mentioned, getting children to move from orienteering at school / outdoor centre to manistream sport is hard becasue the sport may not be accessible - this has been a theme on other threads as well. Orienteering clubs cover large areas and 'established orienteers' tend to like their sport to be held at different locations for each event and are prepared to drive to get their 'fix'. The 'exit route' from school to the local club is difficult if not impossible if there isn't a perceived 'local' club.

If we are to attract many more newcomers we need to make the sport more accessible, use limited numbers of areas, have many more low key events, re-use courses from previous occasions, have a more sociable atmosphere i.e. have a 'culture change'. The South West Development Conference last weekend, the British Orienteering Conferences in the past etc have highlighted this and some clubs have tried to have a more local focus (examples on the Good Practice section of the British Orienteering web site include POW, SELOC, HOC/MADO etc).

[RJ]

.....But that depends on the club having a junior structure.......

Getting involved with schools, in clusters (primary and secondary), is fine. You will influence a lot of kids and give hundreds the opportunity to try the sport. If you have a competitive league alongside this involvement you will quickly find out where your natural talent lies.

As awk says, the club/school link is the important part of the equation. This can be helped if the club has a junior structure. Most clubs have junior coaching sessions on a regular basis. Send invitations to those talented youngsters in the schools and get them along to club training sessions. The uptake can be quite surprising, and the flow of juniors into the club will follow.

Keeping youngsters in the sport depends on having a strong competitive structure. Having leagues at different levels.... club, district, region and national.... gives loads of opportunities for prizes and awards. I don't think (ex-)youngsters will remain in the sport, post 18, if they haven't been enjoying it a great deal in the early years. It needs to be fun! ....and that means no running around the assembly field mind!..... upsetting all the adults.... can't have that!....

Lets have more prizes and awards for juniors. Find a way to have a junior presentation at your District events. Just a notice on the results board will do.... "First Three on Yellow and Orange will win prizes.... awarded at 1pm."