Osteopath or homeopath?

[Stodgetta]

This forum has been too quiet today and I've been wondering for a while what alternative treatments for injuries etc people trust and believe in, and which are just wacky.

For example, I do see a chiropracter on a fairly regular basis, and have done for some time, (particularly if I have an injury), but I wouldn't consider homeopathy or reflexology for anything.

I just wondered what therapies other people are happy to use, and do use on a regular basis, and if there are any that nobody would try at all. Any opinions?

[johnloguk]

It would be unfair of me, or anyone else, to criticise alternative treatments without proper first hand knowledge, so I won't. But I have used a chiropractor for several years following a back injury at work. It isn't overstating it to say that he has kept me running/climbing/orienteering for about 15 years.

I was lucky to have an "enlightened" GP, who at the time of my injury said I could wait months for physio on the NHS, by which time all manner of complications could have set in, or I could go private to a chiropractor immediately and hopefully get sorted. The chiropractor did sort me out, and also managed to explain in simple terms exactly what my injury was, and what the remedy was, using a model of the spine. Along with the odd check-up when I have an "early warning twinge", he has given me regular exercises that keep my spine aligned and pretty trouble free.

Of the alternative therapies chiropractic does seem more rooted in scientific research and accepted wisdom than most. The idea that most nerves, tendons, muscles etc are in some way connected to/through the spine, and that if the spine is mis-aligned the resulting pressure will cause problems, seems very logical to me.

I guess though that as most conditions have a psychological element, if it works for you don't question it too deeply. Most NHS GPs would admit that "kidology" is a large part of their medical bag anyway. A sports injuries guy once told me that he thought ultrasound was a waste of time for most people, but he had regulars who insisted he use it on them anyway, and they seemed to benefit from it!

[stodge]

Like stodgetta I’m a firm beliver in Osteopaths, Ive had several injuries over the years which have been traced back to imbalances caused by my dodgy joints.
(particularly ankle problems), but always in conjunction with a good physio, or lately high quality sports massage.

I’ve also had acupuncture for inflammation and muscle spasm which has also worked.

As most long term readers of nopesport will no I’m not the greatest fan of podiatrists....

[Stodgetta]

I'm not asking anyone to criticize alternative treatments, I'm just being nosey to find out what people use, and what they don't.

I started with a chiropracter by accident - the physio I used to see as a student started off with a general chiropractic assessment and treatment before he started to look at the injury, and his logic and explanation made sense to me.

The reason for not using homeopathy is that from a scientific point of view (I am a doctor!), I can't see how it would work (and therefore chances are, it won't), and as for reflexology, there are 2 reasons: 1, I can't see how it would work, and 2, nobody is allowed to touch my feet However, as a doctor, I wouldn't rubbish them as treatments if my patients believed in them...

[AndyO]

My 1st Aid kit always contains Arnica 30c tablets in case of injury. It helps the body recover from injury, particularly bruising etc after a fall. At Day 1 of the Scottish 6 Days in 2001 I fell heavily when I slipped running across a wooden bridge, causing severe bruising on my hip and a bad cut on my knee. A dressing sorted out my knee, the bruising was gone before the end of the week (and didn't develop into the lurid blue and yellow mess that I was expecting to see, and I ran on all 6 days - after buying new O shoes with dobs!

Arnica also aided a speedy recovery for our youngest after he had two teeth removed as part of orthodontist treatment recently.

Some other homeopathic remedies we use in the family: aconite - take on the first symptoms of a cold to stop it in it's tracks; belladonna - for sore ears (when the kids were young); drosera for a croup-like cough (kids again)

Like johnloguk, our GPs are very aware of and open to alternative treatments, and we use homeopathy when we can. It works for us - and it worked for our kids. Belladonna is much preferable to gromits (which means an operation) or antibiotics.

My wife has just got a pair of orthotic insoles, and can now walk comfortably for the first time in years, with help from a podiatrist (a step too far for homeopathy). I'm less sure of that as a help for my achilles/calf problems, as the blurb with the insoles says you should use them with a stiff sole, and my Innov8s and O Shoes don't really come into that category. All seems to be OK at the moment, but if it flares up again, I'll consult a running specialist physio, I think. Happy to listen to others' advice on that, though.

[HOCOLITE]

Arnica is indeed good for bruising it was given to my very sceptical 81 year old father by a pharmacist and worked wonders. Does anyone know if the is anything for wasp/bee stings. I got stung at the World Champs the Danes said it was a Bee I don't think it was a wasp like ours. I went to first aid and they tried to remove sting with a suction tube and then said use antihistamine. I had a very swollen knee for almost a week. If it had not been day six my O event would have been ended.

[Gross]

Over here they believe in alternative methods.... paganism & voodooism. Voodism works well in a negitive way If you have an injured knee for example... get the witch doctor to stick a pin in the knee of a clay doll and hey presto you are instantly cured (as on Blue Peter... don't try this at home)

[EddieH]

Often it is the individual practitioner that is important. I have met brilliant, and dreadful physiotherapists and osteopaths. My one experience of a chiropracter was so negative that it has put me off them for life.

However since I have started aggressively supplementing my diet I have only once needed recourse to any of these - and that's seven years now. Placebo - I think not.

[NeilC]

The reason for not using homeopathy is that from a scientific point of view (I am a doctor!), I can't see how it would work (and therefore chances are, it won't

Hardly a convincing argument. Many (most?) scientific discoveries are serendipitous - this treatment / new drug works, let's now and try and work out why. Also most new doctors have a pretty limited knowledge of biochemistry/physiology (I know I teach trainee medics!). Indeed our general scientific understanding of whole organism biology is still nowhere near good enough for even top scientists to use the above argument.

[Stodgetta]

Stodgetta wrote:
The reason for not using homeopathy is that from a scientific point of view (I am a doctor!), I can't see how it would work (and therefore chances are, it won't

Should have said:
The reason for not using homeopathy myself...

I was trying to say that because I can't see how it works, I am personally unlikely to get any effect from it (even placebo) because I am not expecting it to work. I may be surprised! I am not saying it doesn't work...

[jab]

I find it hard to suspend my scientific disbelief about homeopathy, because unless I can have some scientific understanding of a process I find it very difficult to believe in it. However, homeopathy has worked very successfully on our children, even when they were probably too young for a placebo effect to be the explanation.

[Ed]

I find it hard to suspend my scientific disbelief about homeopathy, because unless I can have some scientific understanding of a process I find it very difficult to believe in it. However, homeopathy has worked very successfully on our children, even when they were probably too young for a placebo effect to be the explanation.

a) why were you giving your kids something you don't think would work, unless you don't find it all that hard to suspend your scientific disbelief?
b) what is "let mummy/daddy kiss it better" if not the ultimate placebo effect as used on generations of kids?

personally my favourite placebo is a hot curry washed down with a good ale followed by a dram of whisky of jaegermeister (nasty foreign habit I've picked up). I always feel better after that. maybe there's some homeopathic traces of peat in the whisky/herbs in the jaegermeister which does it.

either that, or it could just be that homeopathy is rubbish

[Adventure Racer]

Quick check - what exactly are people talking about when they refer to homeopathy? Is it what I presume Stodgetta is referring to, where they use multiple dilutions so that all you really get is water with no active ingredient (you'll note I hold similar views to her!) or simply using alternative herbal treatments as I assume is the case when referring to arnica (I presume that isn't diluted so that there is no active ingredient left?)

On the subject of podiatrists, I'm a firm believer. For me personally I'm fairly convinced the orthotics help a lot, and it is something I would recommend people try, however I am happy to accept it may not be the solution for everybody (I also have "soft" orthotics, and I suspect many people who don't get on have expensive custom made "hard" ones).

[SeanC]

A cautionary tale if you're interested....

last year whilst walking the coast to coast, I picked up a hamstring injury and couldnt staighten my leg. I looked up a physiotherapist listed under "physiotherapists" in the local yellow pages and booked an appointment. The treatment I received involved

- pressing my leg randomly but ineffectively with his thumb
- looking for "energy lines" (whatever they are)
- stairing at a 1950's medical diagram of a knee.
- digging egg out of his 2 ft long beard

After 15 minutes he announced he wasnt exactly a physiotherapist but a "physical therapist". I was too scared to move, and besides he had my £30. At the end of 30 minutes of random treatment he announced "there, that'll fix it. I bet that feels better". "Yes", I lied as I made a swift exit.

I later found a real physiotherapist, who ultrasounded my hamstring and told me to go home and rest. Apparently you have to ask if the physio is a "chartered physiotherapist" no matter what yellow pages says, that guarentees someone who has at least studied and passed exams. Otherwise you'll get an alternative therapist who might be good, or might be a nutter with a bad beard. Same goes for osteopaths I think.

[jab]

a) why were you giving your kids something you don't think would work, unless you don't find it all that hard to suspend your scientific disbelief?

Because their father has a much stronger belief in the power of homeopathy than I do.

b) what is "let mummy/daddy kiss it better" if not the ultimate placebo effect as used on generations of kids?

I don't think kissing it better has much of a placebo effect on children younger than about 8 or 9 months - you're just giving cuddles to relieve distress, not convincing them that the kiss actually conveys any healing powers. Then they have great belief in the magic power of a parent's kiss. But some children are perfectly aware that "kissing it better" doesn't actually work, well before they are 2 1/2.

I agree that, by all our current scientific understanding, homoepathy is bad science. I was just observing that, despite this, it seems to work on at least some occasions. Maybe our science isn't as complete as we lik to think.