Peter Palmer

[DIDSCO]

...yeah I guess it was 1993 and that was before you discovered beer and the golden arches, ha ha

[Rich R]

I think the guidelines got changed when the PPR went down to 6 legs. Previously, both red legs were designated as night (which is why they were red), with the LG as the dawn leg. Although there's a bit of a mismatch between guideline and actuality, it looks to me as if the actuality is the way to go given the vibes both here and at the race, and the guidelines should be rewritten (as long as it's recognised that it's the dawn leg for the leaders, not for the 'average' or somesuch team). As it was, two years ago our orange leg runner was on the verge of needing a headtorch. I'd say stick with the 4.30am start at this time of the year.

Over the past few years, we've had quite a few doing their first night race at the PPR, sometimes a bit unexpectedly. As far as I can recall, without exception they've loved it, and many have been converted to more regular night orienteering.

Well back in my day, when it was eight legs we even had fifth leg go off with a head torch on, on one occasion. The night orienteering is a big part of the event and should give a slight advantage to those with specialist night Orienteers.

In NOC Juniors have often been encouraged to do some night events to give them the practise and we have had as number of night specialists down the years. I think at current the balance is right.

[johnloguk]

My only slight misgiving about night orienteering is that these days the size of your head torch can make as much difference as your ability to navigate! I was trundling along at the Harvester in the dim light of my petzl when suddenly the whole forest was lit up around me and for about 50 metres ahead, by a guy more than 50 metres behind me with an aircraft landing light on his head, I kid you not! If you are prepared to shell out over £100 your chances at night-O improve considerably.

[bedders]

You could always borrow one...

[Gross]

: If you are prepared to shell out over £100 your chances at night-O improve considerably.

Not really... shelling out £100 + gives you the standard equipment for the sport... using a petzl or similar is using sub standard kit & you should not expect it or you to perform at your best....

Same can be said about cheap running shoes v proper O shoes...

[johnloguk]

I'm only an occasional night-O runner and would definitely buy a decent head torch if I was going to do it more seriously. I must also buy an emoticon with its tongue firmly in its cheek so I don't always get taken so seriously

Taking my tongue out of my cheek I must say what a great competition the PPR is, I just wish I'd started the sport young enough to have a go myself.

[IanW]

Taking my tongue out of my cheek....

I haven't got my tongue in my cheek and I think that night O was much more fun when everyone used a torch which was only adequate to read the map and illuminate the terrain a few yards ahead.

It meant that all navigation had to be relative to nearby features, similar to navigating in fog, and could turn simple areas into a significant challenge.

Now, it might as well be daylight if you're prepared to buy the equipment. Only difference is that you miss a Saturday night out!

Ian

[Jene]

Taking my tongue out of my cheek....

I haven't got my tongue in my cheek and I think that night O was much more fun when everyone used a torch which was only adequate to read the map and illuminate the terrain a few yards ahead.

It meant that all navigation had to be relative to nearby features, similar to navigating in fog, and could turn simple areas into a significant challenge.

Now, it might as well be daylight if you're prepared to buy the equipment. Only difference is that you miss a Saturday night out!

Ian

nope, i disagree here.. even with a big head torch orienteering at night is harder than during the day, you can't see as far...or in as wide an arc without turning your head..with a petzl i could not orienteer (pps 2 years ago), got completely lost and ended up having to rely on other orienteer's with proper headtorches

niether do you have to shell out £100, some clubs are bound to have club headtorches? ERYRI is only a small club and we have 2 headtorches to share around when people want to go to night events, that way they get used alot more...either that or find someone to borrow one off.. there arent any events at the moment where both adults and juniors run so everyone wont need them at the same time.. British nights champs is only for 16's upwards.. and events like pp's for under 18s... so sharing is convenient

any sign of results yet?? impatient? noooo

[HOCOLITE]

Sorry Jene Progress made last night but Work sent him to London today so not home yet. I think the problems and adjustments may have been sorted now. Just has to type in or sort out splits for the extra yellow courses I believe.

[awk]

Eeeeee, in my day we had to navigate using a candle stuck in our hat, and that's the real way to night orienteer.....

This regularly comes up, and frankly I haven't got much time for the argument (sorry Ian!). There's a limit to how useful extra torch power is: try running on 20W through a fairly dense forest or in mist/rain etc., or using it to look at your map. Yes, it gives a bigger spread in clear open terrain, but it's still a very different challenge to daytime.

To my mind the newer headtorches have vastly improved night-O, making less of a bingo treasure hunt which it always was with the older kit (unless you made it so simple that it didn't make a lot of difference day or night anyway). I would hate to go back to those days, just as I would hate to go back to card punching (or ink stamping!).

As for cost: yes if you want your own headtorch it will cost a fair sum, but its still small beer compared to a lot of sports kit. (I use mine for night-time bike commuting along the nearby towpath, so it's been even better value!). And, as Jene says, an increasing number of clubs have kit to borrow: our PPR teams were mostly kitted out with club headtorches and batteries; no junior needed to supply their own.

[Little Hoddy]

To me the argument sounds fairly pointless. The only way to solve it would be to force restrictions at events not allowing torches over a certain power, which at the moment sounds crazy. This shouldn't really be an issue until affordable torches get quite a lot more powerful!

[seabird]

Jene is absolutely right. Clubs should purchase a few quality headtorch kits with priority for use being given to the Juniors. Aire have been doing this for a considerable number of years.

[johnloguk]

I think the argument for club kit is a strong one. It just dawned on me that we bought some club mountain marathon gear a few years ago when we first started to get lots of members into the KIMM etc. Sometimes the cost of kit can be too high, especially if you're not sure how far you want to take a particular activity, or if is only going to be an occasional one.

Once you start doing something regularly though I think you should get your own gear and leave the club equipment to encourage newcomers or occasional users.

[FatBoy]

Personally I think to orienteer at night without it being silly one needs about 6W of power. This means you can run fast on a track (something I don't do any more ) and not run into things. Beyond that it's your choice to offset weight (batteries) and glare from map/rain/fog against the extra power for the few times you need it. Personally I stick with 6W and mostly I do alright at night. I don't feel there's any need for power restrictions - the weight of batteries required is limiting to a point anyway, plus it would be impossible to police. Looking forward to the night season

[Stodgetta]

Hey, Jene, your wait is over!

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