Latest edition of Focus.....

[eddie]

yep recommended great race get involved.

[summo]

[i][quote="ratleikur"]It appears that there is a steady decline in BOF membership and/or participation, especially in the M/W21 and M/W35 age groups.[/i]

Not been orienteering long and just slipped from M21 to M35, but either way I been to some events where the number of total runners in M21, M35 and M35L have still been in single figures, hardly a race and quite disheartening to run in.

"Too many newcomer-orientated events and park/sprint races which only appeal to certain sectors will only worsen the problem."

I'm still learning, but would much rather do a long complex race in the trees, than a dash around a park or a glorified fell race with simple nav legs. To me if I wanted to run around a park or streets I would do 5k and 10K events. Orieenteering to me is about having to think and run in remote places where you make your own decisions, not follow the line of runners around a straight forward open course.

It is OK making begineer events easy and/or appealing, but I took a friend to the last day of lakes 5 days for their 2nd ever event, they did M21 and were very slow. But they got a bigger high and sense of personal achievement from completing that(finding ever control), than I am sure they would from a more simple course. It is these rewards that will bring people back, so people join clubs as much for friends and a social life, so perhaps that is factor too.

[lincolnsteve]

I'm still learning, but would much rather do a long complex race in the trees, than a dash around a park or a glorified fell race with simple nav legs. To me if I wanted to run around a park or streets I would do 5k and 10K events.Orieenteering to me is about having to think and run in remote places where you make your own decisions, not follow the line of runners around a straight forward open course.

I'm guessing you have not ran a park race at York or simalar? certainly not many "easy" legs and deffinatly no long lines of people following. These races are fast paced, short technical legs which demand very quick thinking and precise navigation. I have ran in some very remote places of the UK and on occasions the M21 & Brown courses have felt nothing more than a "Red" course. Just because there are people around you and your not on the middle of some hillside in waist high braken does not mean a city or park race is any less tecnical.

Park races are great fun, they are spectator friendly and definatly have a lot to offer in promoting the sport. Try one, you may supprise yourself.

[summo]

"I'm guessing you have not ran a park race at York or simalar? certainly not many "easy" legs and deffinatly no long lines of people following."

I've done an event at York race course and a park/street O, I did enjoyed the run out, slightly hampered by kids moving a couple of the controls on one of them!! Yes it's public, brings to sport to the urban areas where it gets scene, but simply does not draw me. I do still hope to make it down to Lincoln in January next year, if I can escape work.

Agree on the techincal element, if the legs and short and fast, then clearly you need to orientate yourself and think faster, as you don't have the time between legs to plan ahead so much.

As for brown feeling like red, I am long way off being a course planner, but is that not their fault? Perhaps they just added in some easy track legs to bump the distance up?

[SeanC]

Mrs H wrote

"In response to SeanC - the 3 things which made MADO work were
1 selling it as an adventure sport to counter the cottonwool, couch potatoe lifestyle threatening our children (this is the part I'm not sure park O will meet)
2 Lots of publicity
3 Lots and lots of helpers. "

I know this is your list Mrs. H, but dont MADO members generally meet each other after the event, I think you said in past threads in a big tent or for post event coaching? I might be getting confused.

This might prevent that "wandering off all lonely feel" that orienteers get when they've finished their run and there's no one to talk to, especially offputting to newcomers I would imagine.

Lots of the ideas in this thread involve more volunteering: more events, different types of events, more coaching for beginners, organising more after 0 socialising, more publicity. OK, I've said this before, but I think part of the problem is that orienteering is too cheap. Those bemoning the lack of classic long races could you pay more? A regional event my club ran was quite a strain for us in many ways, mainly for organising and especially for mapping. If the entry fees generated could have covered the cost of professional mapping and (dreaming slightly) a professional organiser or planner, then we'd have more volunteer time available for publicity, organising more local events etc. The same comments could apply to C4 events to a lesser extent. Or you could spend the money on publicity?

If we dont get more orienteers into the sport somehow, it stands to reason that C4 and above events will either get more expensive or less frequent. Money spent wisely now could not only help secure the future of the sport, but make it cheaper in the long run.

[Mrs H.]

but dont MADO members generally meet each other after the event, .

Yes - I should have mentioned that. We have a bring and share picnic (which is very popular among the helpers as well as the customers actually) post event coaching which is very popular with our MADO juniors as it is led by two of our older (qualified) juniors under an adult coach's supervision and a lot of fun (this has multiple Extra Value as it helps the junior coaches get the experience they need to move up through the system and helps HOC meet its ClubMark targets as well as giving people help) and the buddies generally chase down their new charges after a run to do a debrief.

I must also stress that the MADO mini-league is not just for beginners - we have a very hard to win blue course which last season was won by Warrior Jason Howell with Andy Monro of EBOR in 2nd and our own Adventure Racer 3rd. Helpers are assured of a good half-price run and a free T shirt! and beginners can see where the sport can take them in terms of a challlenge and it makes them feel like "real" orienteers too (if I dare use that word.) they can go out and look at a few harder controls after their run if maps are left over.

We have over printed maps, SI punching and prizes and all those other things people were saying and we are very very good value - this is quality orienteering in some of the best terrain we can offer in the Midlands (which may not be saying much).

[johnloguk]

I think there is a risk of over personalising this discussion, if such a phrase exists. People keep saying what they personally like or dislike, which is perfectly valid, but isn't necessarilly what others like or what will affect recruitment.

We have to accept that there are many different orienteering disciplines, many different types of terrain within each discipline, and each can vary depending on the abilities of the planner. The whole experience of each event also depends on the organisation, especially the enthusiasm of the helpers. Even the state of the car park field, the walk to the start and the weather might determine whether or not some people try it again

With such a varied sport different people will be attracted (and retained) for different reasons. I came into orienteering from a hillwalking/climbing/road running background, all of which I still do, so for years I was a classic "traditional" style orienteer. Big courses, big challenges, bring it on was my narrow view. But I've become more philosophical, despite remaining very competitive, and now get as much pleasure from a summer league as most C3s, and welcome any variety from the standard format. But I accept that many people aren't as "liberal" in their views of orienteering as me.

Just because you or I don't like Park Races or MTBOs etc doesn't mean that they aren't great for many other people, and valid methods of recruiting new members. And a real challenge too.

At the risk of repeating myself it isn't one particular style of orienteering that we need, it is quality events across the board. All the things Mrs H says about publicity and marketing, enthusiastic helpers, post run picnics etc are spot on, but we must aim to do all that at every style of event or it will all be a waste of time. Its amazing what we old timers will put up with, but in a competitive market newcomers aren't as easily fooled

[Adventure Racer]

Just to sum up MADO from a different perspective, and also given input from my other half (who is very much a novice orienteer, and didn't really enjoy the experience when I took her in the past). Some reasons why MADO works:

1) Lots of people around to help - not only your traditional helpers doing all the normal jobs, but also to help people out and explain things before the start, out on the course (at least at early events - can't remember that being the case in the league?) and talk to them after the finish, where they are actively engaged rather than left to wander off.
2) The whole event is aimed towards newcomers rather than them being tolerated at an event for experienced orienteers. In a way all this means is that they are actively helped through the mysterious processes of taking part in an event rather than waiting for them to ask for help (I'm a recent enough orienteer to remember how scary this all was, and I can understand how somebody less good than I was - bearing in mind I was already winning ARs as a navigator - might have been put off by my experience).
3) Pre-printed maps - might not seem like a major issue, but it really does make it a lot easier for newcomers, much more so in a way than for experienced orienteers.
4) E-punching - same comment as above. Also people - particularly kids - do like to compare their splits with each other. Also enables rapid results production on the day which people are very interested in, and it emphasises the racing aspect.
5) Good areas and planning - beginners don't want to be racing on grotty areas with poorly designed courses any more than the rest of us.

Worth noting that aspects 3&4 have really made the difference as far as my other half is concerned, compared to earlier experiences with master maps and punches, though I'm sure having somebody other than me to coach her also helped!

I think the idea of a "MADO model" or "POW model" as a solution to recruitment is totally misguided. What works is having enthusiastic volunteers putting on the sort of events *they* are enthusiatic about, which typically means something they (think) they devised for themselves. If Mrs H adopted our model, or we adopted hers, chances are both would fail.

Seems a very reasonable point to me. Probably also fair to describe MADO as a bit of a Middle England thing, as we are fortunate here in having the right sort of catchment, nice convenient areas, and also the right sort of volunteers. Worth noting on the latter though that it is kind of self-perpetuating, as the volunteers see that what they are doing is good, and all the people who leave happy and are therefore encouraged to come back and help again. However whilst it might not be right for everywhere and everybody, I find it really hard to believe that there is nowhere else such an initiative could succeed, and whilst an original idea might be good sometimes it's easier to adapt an idea of somebody elses to your particular situation. I guess the point is that you don't have to strictly follow the formula, but it is worth remembering some of the important principles for success.

p.s. Personally I like variety, and really enjoyed my Sprint experience this year, despite the popular perception that I'm only into long stuff - though for me 15 minutes really is a sprint. The challenge might be different, finding the controls not being so difficult, but if you think decision making at speed to save vital seconds isn't a challenge, I don't think you can have been going hard enough or been in enough oxygen debt!

[SeanC]

Mrs. H and adventure racer, do you mind telling us how many new members MADO has created since birth?

I'm thinking that the MADO and POW examples are very different from the clubs I listed earlier in the post who have increased membership between 1997-2004 (AIRE, GRAMP, INT and one other I cant remember). The latter clubs increased BOF membership by 10-20% over 7 years, in INT's case that's only 10 new members (sorry to burst your bubble Graeme ). I get the impression that the MADO and POW cases show much more rapid increases.

The MADO/POW "model" seems ideal for emergency resusitation of a club about to fold, or to quickly establish a new viable club. The drawback I see is that a) in the case of establishing a big chunk of money is presumably needed to buy new kit/make maps etc, b) an individual or individual(s) have to put in lots and lots of hours to get some momentum going. It's a lot to ask and I wonder how many out there would be willing to do a MADO? This isnt a rhetorical question, I just dont know!

Established clubs like my own dont need rapid increases in membership, just gradual increases in recruitment as INT, AIRE and the like to avoid a membership crisis causing some pain in a few years time (I'm not saying a big increase would be a bad thing). I bet the successful clubs have things in common, just the implementation is different. I remember the discussion we had last year about AIRE established that publicity, frequent events and socialising were important. This is true for MADO too, just done differently.

As for vision, there's probably a set of principles that can be established from the successful clubs that are proven to increase membership, such as good publicity, coaching newcomers etc. How these are applied could vary locally - though with BOF help I'm sure. This is probably more useful than slogans or assuming that specific techniques that might work well in one area will work across the country (eg targetting those without public transport, sorry Mike ).

[HOCOLITE]

Sean. MADO was not for resusitation but more sustainability. It has increased family membership and HOC had seen that new family members were required in the light of the aging orienteering profile. Our juniors are aging as are their parents who are valued helpers. New older members may have more time on their hands but often don't have the 'time' to develop the committment to take a club forward. Very few new members jump straight in and organise, plan, control events or join the committee. MADO has enabled some newer members to try these activities and thus strengthened the overall club picture. Hopefully some of the MADO recruits will move onto these roles, they have begun helping as they know the people around them, a benefit of buddies and the picnics etc. When you first join a club and get asked to help it is intimidating because the sport is new the people are new and the 'job' is new. There are still new members filtering in from the whole club area.

[Mrs H.]

In the period October to June (9 month) we recruits 87 new members in 29 membership units that was 22 families (target audience) 3 sole juniors and 4 adults. I think some of these have joined BOF - one adult competed at the JK and lot of the juniors have run for the club at YBT, and the PPJR this weekend plus helping to get a silver medal at the British Schools for Malvern Chase (we would not have been able to do that or field a full school team without them - we expect to be able to do the same this year - who ever thought I would be doing something to promote schools orienteering!)- lots of the MADO recruits help on the day now - it's too early to expect them to do more and even i would't ask - nothing like putting people off by button holing them their 3rd visit or something.

we start up again next month and I expect more signings!

[SeanC]

Sorry, hocolite, I misunderstood the mado concept. I forgot MADO is a division of HOC not a separate club.

I wonder if the point about needing an individual like Mrs. H willing to put in long hours to get the division off the ground and add the necessary drive is still valid? How much help did HOC provide? I can see how the concept would be successful in Kent for example (Sevenoaks And District Orienteers? sorry bad pun), but personally I'm only in a position to help out at events and organise the occasional one. Could it be done elsewhere without someone as dedicated as Mrs. H?

[HOCOLITE]

Sean
To quote Mike Hamilton. Mrs H had a vision and she pursued it relentlessly with a little help from her friends and club members

[SeanC]

Looking back at what I wrote in this thread, it seems a little too negative. Apologies Hololite and Mrs. H. I'm just interested in how you got all those new members and how this could be applied elsewhere.

I have a couple more questions!

- Who were the buddies and who were "buddied"? What did the buddies do and did it work?
- Re bring and share picnics and the coaching sessions, what did you do in bad weather?

[HOCOLITE]

- Who were the buddies and who were "buddied"? What did the buddies do and did it work? Buddies were local club members who wore clearly identifiable t shirts(they were not necessarily experienced Orienteers) Job spec was to meet new arrivals find out their requirements course wise or suggest best for them then take them through registration SI use download etc and to start talking about the map and O en-route. See them through the start then if possible meet them at finish to discuss how it went. The meeting buddy may not have been the greeting if they were involved with a new 'customer'
- Re bring and share picnics and the coaching sessions, what did you do in bad weather?

The sunshines on Mrs H

Seriously there was a shelter tent for poor weather, which was actually not necessary for initial MADO's as although cold we didn't have rain.