Who Controls Orienteering?

[johnloguk]

I went for a training run round one of our local forests earlier today, and in the main car park noticed a poster advertising summer activities. I was amazed to see 6 days worth of "orienteering" taking place, which we as the local club were not aware of. Now I don't for one minute think that we have to be asked permission before anyone puts on an orienteering event on our "patch", but from past experience I have some concerns as to what these "orienteering" sessions will actually be.

If someone puts a football tournament on for kids over the summer holidays there is a fair chance that we would all recognise it as football, but that doesn't always happen with orienteering does it! How many thousands of people have been put off orienteering without even knowing what it was, often because they once took part in some weird activity that someone who also didn't know what it was decided to organise an event?

Apart from that the forest is in an appalling state, with head high bracken where there isn't waist high nettles and brambles. We wouldn't even hold a summer league in there at the moment. I might be totally maligning someone who has gone to great lengths to create a fun activity for kids, that is a form of orienteering, but I would be pleasantly surprised if that was the case. I think I'll have to go down there and have a look at what they're doing, then if I'm wrong I'll eat humble pie.

The other thing of course is that we have all the maps and no one has asked us for any.

If we had been approached we would have been happy to have organised some orienteering activities over the holidays, and often have done. Then we would have made sure that we used an appropriate area, with accurate maps, qualified coaches, and made them aware of the bigger world of orienteering out there.

I suppose that if I have a question after this long moan it is this. Have the orienteering authorities any control over who puts on events, and if not should they have?

[Red Adder]

Two important things here are what maps are being used - if they are your clubs how did they obtain them and are they aware they could be abusing your copyright ?

Do they have permission to use the area from the land owners and other relevant parties. If they don't they could jeopardise your future use of that and other areas.

I think it would be advisable to checj out who is putting on the events to, if nothing else, protect your club from future difficulties.

Perhaps BOF should look to copyright certian key orienteering terms / events etc.

RA

[RJ]

Just for a moment let's try and see the positives..... An organisation, person or group of people have advertised an activity that they are describing as orienteering..... they have gone to the trouble so obviously expect an uptake.

I say, go along and take part. Find out what they are about. See how many folk turn up and how they react to the activity. Talk to folk and tell them about another event your club are putting on. Don't be dismissive of this activity, but tell folk that your orienteering is a little / very / completely different from what they have just experienced.

Perhaps they have obtained permission from the landowner... perhaps not. Tell them that your club normally has to ask permission. Then next time you get permission for your next event tell the landowner that YOU will always ask permission before holding an event, but you realise that others may not.

On the question of the map.... wait and see what you get on the day.

If you can make contact before the events I would suggest you do.

Their calling the event 'orienteering'.... that is not something we can do anything about. We don't have the 'rights' to the word. We can only continue to promote OUR orienteering at every opportunity.... publicise it in the press.... hold events and attract the general public!

Many years ago someone brought an orienteering type marker to a regional association meeting .... one that they had found on an area.... and they wanted to know what 'other' people thought they were doing putting on an orienteering event.... what was the association going to do about it! Never mind the fact that the event that this marker was being used for had now been vandalised... competitors would fail to find a control point.... would go back disgruntled.... and never try orienteering again!

The point is.... other folk will organise orienteering events as they see fit.... we have no say in what they do. We must just grow our own brand of orienteering and tell everyone about it in the hope that it will become the norm and others will then emulate US!

[johnloguk]

I agree with both those posts and certainly wouldn't want to be dismissive of anyone organising an orienteering event, the more the merrier in my opinion. I just hope that everyone enjoys it and then takes it up a bit more seriously, that has to be our bottom line.

I did forget one important bit of info in my original post. It is Forestry Commission land and it appears that they are organising the events themselves, alongside face painting, bug hunts etc.

The map issue worries me, if they are using our maps they shouldn't be, and if they are using something else how accurate or appropriate is it?

It also begs the question as to what clubs should do so that anyone wanting to organise an orienteering event comes to us first for help/advice, especially the FC who we work with closely anyway. That way we can have some sort of quality control over the event, and have the opportunity to market our sport and recruit new members.

I suppose that my original moan was based on years of talking to people about orienteering, getting the common reply "oh I did that at scouts/cadets/school/youth club etc and it was horrible....", then you find that what they actually did wasn't remotely like the orienteering we all know and love.

I'll definitely go down there and see what is happening, fingers crossed

[Klebe]

The forestry commission quite often have permanent courses set up on their land (not sure who sets them up or who produces the maps for them) but from our early experiences of orienteering in forests all the controls could be reached using the forest tracks. Your worries about the state of the off-path forest may well be unfounded.
If you have a close relationship with the Forestry commission in relation to this area isn't a simple phone call to your known contact the easiest way to allay your fears?
Sounds like it could be aimed at families what with face painting etc - how are you getting on with your publicity material to hand out on the day?

[johnloguk]

There isn't a permanent course in the forest so that can't be the solution, but we are getting together a plan, including a few phone calls and publicity material, to make the most of the sessions as we can. We've talked about a permanent course in there for years, maybe now is the time to push it again.

I'm not active on our committee at the moment, but I always thought we had a good relationship with this particular forest office, so it is surprising that we didn't know about it in advance.

It's a wake up call as much as anything. I'm moving away from my initial rant about events masquerading as orienteering, and am now thinking more about how we keep ourselves in the minds of anyone organising an "orienteering" event. If I hadn't happened to go for a run in that forest yesterday we would have missed a great opportunity to spread the orienteering word. Also I saw that they are clear felling again, which means another map update ho hum.

If clubs maintain a higher profile, easier said than done for small clubs covering a large area I know, then we should cut down on events going on without our knowledge or participation.

[bendover]

just a thought... lets say theres some really bad luck and a kid gets injured, breaks a leg or something at one of these 'orienteering' sessions.

it makes the press. 'kid breaks leg at orienteering event - no first aid present'.

or possibly:

'children lost overnight at orienteering event'.

i dunno. it's unlikely. but stranger things have happened. this is when our sport, and by association the governing body, coaches etc. will get tarred with a big dirty brush.

i think that BOF or the regional association should be trying to get in touch with these people as soon as possible to find out exactly what they are planning to put on.

[John Morris]

At a slight tangent...

Bendover says:

"I think that BOF or the regional association should be trying to get in touch with these people as soon as possible to find out exactly what they are planning to put on."

Well, yes... But...

We are all BOF. (Have I said this before?) Not just a (very) few overworked waged staff and a few Officers, Councillors and Committee/Association faithful.

We rely on Johnloguk, and indeed every other member, to do the finding out (delicately...), to suggest the response, and to make the initial ambassadorial moves.

And, be it noted, Nopesport has provided a very useful service here by suggesting a more subtle/productive response than was initially thought of. So thanks, all (and especially, RJ) for that.

If, as RJ implies, you can approach your club (first) or Association (if the Club so decides) or BOF (if the Association needs more specific resource) with a positive suggestion to achieve a specific goal, that'll be just great!

And it'll be consistent with the minimal funding that we provide for BOF Central...

IMHO, naturally...

Or have I misunderstood the roles and (relatively) rich resources of Clubs and (to a lesser degree) of Associations, when compared to BOF Central?

[bendover]

'we are all BOF'

good point, well made..

[Red Adder]

Luckily we have established excellent relations with our local FC sub-office - which led to a useful contact with a company that puts on an annual charity "adventure race" - basically 40 Km + score team O event. They wanted to use two large FC forests and were going to use 1:25,000 OS maps. The FC introduced us and I put together simplified O maps (isn't OCAD wonderful for that) of the two forests for the event, and helped advise with course setting. A good sum was raised for charity, over 300 people had a good day out with a realistic O experience and the modest copyright fee that was paid for the maps covered my travel costs for updating and extending one of the forests. Seemed to be a very positive experience all round and shows that a polite and helpful reaction to other "orienteers" can be the best approach.
RA

[johnloguk]

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread, I think it has been very worthwhile, and as John Morris says "we are all BOF". We work best when we pool our brains and experiences, and I hope we can all learn something out of this.

We have indeed been in touch with the local forest office and I will report back when the dust has settled. Another thing that we realised is that not only have we a potential recruitment opportunity here, but as of September 1st (next week) they could all join BOF free of charge.

[johnloguk]

OK here is the final word on the matter from me, well unless anyone asks me a direct question about it anyway Several lessons to be learnt from this, the first of which is very embarrassing for me. Do not try to read a forest notice board when you have just been running for an hour, the sweat in your eyes adds to the lactic acid in the brain, turning you into an idiot, I misread the poster, the events in question were all in July!

However, the forester still didn't appear to know about the orienteering events, and if he did he thought they were in another wood. I was at least right about the location. So we're still not sure who put them on or what form they took or what maps they used.

It has been a wake-up call for lots of people, and hopefully improved relationships between local club and forest office will stop similar confusion in the future and benefit all concerned.