Water at Events

[redkite]

might be a daft question and I do not know the answer, but does one small cup of water actually make any differemce if you are out for 1.5 hours? How much water do you need to rehydrate?

[mharky]

i'm sure lots of self appointed nopesport scientists will be desperate do show their knowledge by splurting out some random statistics they got off the side of a lucasade bottle

the question you asked is a big one, if you want real answer your going to have to look at some proper research literature. near enough every reply which may come up on here will be bollocks, with a lot of anecdotes.

[Adventure Racer]

I would post something useful (seeing as I am very aware of the issue, haven't got my info off a bottle and not particularly anecdotal), but seeing as it's worth has already been pronounced by Mharky, it doesn't really seem worth my time bothering!

[Oldman]

Wasn't at the Lakes this year and sympathise with hard-pressed organisers!

However, the thread seems not to have touched on a another important point: that of the speed of absorption of new water, which I understand happens through the stomach wall and takes some time, so drinking on a course may not help at all (especially when within an hour of the finish), except psychologically!

Any research physiology students or doctors care to comment?

[mharky]

ha ha ha, you're hilarious. i love the way you say "i am very aware" rather than "i am very knowledgable" or "i am an expert".

it's not worth your time bothering, but it is worth your time replying to say that you are not going to reply? how very dramatic of you.

hows adventure racing, by the way?

[bedders]

oo I like water...

I see someone is using the moderator status responsibly.

[ifititches]

last time this came up on discussion it was around issue of using ant-inflammatory drugs in sport and loss of control of body sodium levels. I think I did put up some references (with Mharky in mind?).

seems it's still an area in which there's lot to be learned, not least because individuals retain /lose water and electrolytes so variaibly. If anyone wants reasonable summary of it there's not a bad one in last Thursday's Athletics Weekly. probably still on a major newsagents' shelves

Current summary seems to be, hydrate well before-hand, whilst racing, don't try to "stay ahead" of your thirst, but listen to it to guide fluid intake (like Hocolite does) Be extremely wary of anti-inflammatories (unless you have to take them as part of treatment) within 24 h before a race and delay starting them for 6 hours after. That bit is because of effects of water and sodium retention/loss

If you really want to find out your body's reaction you could maybe do a few hard training sessions whilst maintaining your current "normal" exercise fluid intake and see if you had gained /lost/maintained weight during those sessions. If you've gained it may mean your body is retaining fluid and that you may be at risk of low sodium levels, but I've not seen that written up very scientifically, so research it for youself.

the answer is to carry your own fluid if you find that you become very thirsty out on a course.This would always be better than relying on some-one else's location of the fluid intake points. You can become very good at listening to your body

Can't resist an anecdote. After spending most of an amazingly hot, & enjoyable, night and out on course at the Harvester trophy this year, and not having packed a camelback, my body was screeching at me by the finish. It took 3+ cups squash at my tent, one packet of crisps, a large ripe banana and a cup of tea before all the tell-tale signs died down. I could give you a fairly valid scientific basis for that concoction too on basis of water, sugar, and minerals, but wouldn't recommend the combination in gastronomic terms.

in answer to original question, IMO, your body will welcome the cup of water if it needs it and will start off on its rehydration process if necessary. If you've lost an excessive amount of fluid then that will be a good thing in aiding your recovery, but if you've lost an excessive amount of sodium it could be unwise to go on drinking just cups of water at that point. But I'm sure someone else will disagree!

[awk]

Interesting post ifititches. I'll try and get that copy of AW, not least because every reference I've gone to over the years maintain that you shouldn't wait for the body to be telling you - by then it's too late - and that any hydration should be based on a structured programme (e.g. X millilitres per Y amount of time). based on how one's personal experimentation.

Which is why I think the issue of water provision by organisers is a non-issue: it should never feature as part of one's own planning. If hydration is an issue, then take responsibility for it yourself: don't rely on organisers. That's why I liked what the Lakes event did.

[fish]

while I don't have the book to hand, and thus can't give details...
Tim Noakes, 'The Lore of Running' - has some interesting discussion on hydration.
And if i remember correctly - comments that over-hydration is often a big problem.

Well worth a read - has lots of references to articles, and in fact is a great book for coaching/training principles witha lot of detail on the physiology.

fish

[Gross]

his brother John had a sheepdog called Shep

[EddieH]

We are forgetting that the organisers are amteurs putting on great events for us to enjoy. There have to be limits to what you ask them to do, and carrying tonnes of water of the fells is not reasonable. They gave everyone warning so they could sort it out for themselves.

Switzerland is not relevent - they helicopter everything in as standard. Their budget obviously covered that - I cannot see it happening in the UK where ther cost would be prohibitive.

[mharky]

I totally agree Eddie, orienteers are starting to get very spoiled these days.

Hydrate or die. Your call.

[Adventure Racer]

Good job I didn't contribute before given I only have an awareness (word carefully chosen, as I'm not an expert, but given nutrition and hydration is important in the racing I do, I have more than a passing knowledge), eh Mharky?

Couple of things I could add - you can lose a litre an hour or even more, but your gut can only handle about 600ml an hour (for an average person), so you'll always be behind the curve.

The reason for listening to your body rather than trying to get ahead though is to do with hyponatremia, which did claim a death at the Boston marathon a few years ago. This was basically down to the person involved drinking only water over a long period and so diluting their body salts down. I really don't see over-drinking like this to be an issue though for the vast majority of orienteers running long courses up to 1.5 hours in length, as it's something that becomes an issue only when going for over 2 hours. http://walking.about.com/cs/fluids/a/hyponatremia.htm suggests that not everybody agrees with Tim Noakes anyway.

Finally, I'm not convinced that one cup of water half way round a one hour event has any effect on most people's performance in THAT event. However it can help towards preventing dehydration over the longer term (noting we're largely talking multi-day events here), though is far less than you really need, so you should make a real effort to refuel afterwards.

[Kitch]

You do have to be particularly stubborn to kill yourself through drinking too much water.

One of the labs I did as a student was to drink a litre of water then for the rest of the afternoon I had to replace the exact volume that I pee'ed by drinking water, basically trying to maintain an excess of 1 litre of body fluid. It was almost impossible to drink the water after a while, totally nauseating.
So like I say you have to be very stubborn.

presumably people think that they feel sick because they are dehydrating (when in fact the opposite is true), they drink more and end up feeling worse , getting into a vicious circle based on a misconception.

If you are racing and feel sick despite having drunk loads of water then consider whether you might have drunk too much.

[graeme]

I think there's one thing the organisers should do, which is to tell competitors what
to expect. We knew there would be no water in the Lakes :I:, how far the start and finish were and more-or-less how long we'd be out. Given that information individuals can decide sensibly what to do.

Of course, I'd like a person up on the fells handing me a drink when I wanted one. But I'm not giving up my holiday to do that job and I don't see anyone else here clamouring to do the handing out either.

Hydrate or die. Your call.

Funny, I forgot to hydrate at the lakes and I didn't die either. Maybe you should read your previous post when splurting random platitudes?