management committee minutes

[Mrs H.]

Just been reading the Man Com minutes published on the BOF website today - they are pretty depressing - people not being replaced - Start funds set aside being used to bale out the international budget - an investigation into appeals procedures and unqualified people running courses (not quite clear what that means). and then there's that old chestnut child protection a couple of quotes

The Federation needs to sell the whole idea of Child Protection to the membership as there will be massive ramifications for the future.

we now need to change the culture of orienteering.

There is now a requirement for club welfare officers; the role is about awareness and the passing on of any issues to the appropriate authority.

Event organisers and controllers may need to be CRB checked in the future.

What does that all mean then? And now it's not enough for people to turn up and offer to help - they've got to be trained to be a volunteer. Well that should put off just about everyone before we've even managed to put on an event.
I'm beginning to wonder whether it might not be easier to abolish the sport all together.

[redkite]

Policical correctness gone mad if my readinh of mrs h note is correct!!

I can see the need for junior coaches to be CRB checked. I went through the process when i took the Welsh juniors to Norway last summer. No problenms with that.

I can see an argument for organisers to be crb checked. However, it would be nonsensical and unworkable if this applied to small local events. If all organisers had to be checked, it would mean that every single member of our club would need to go through the process. Might as well attach the forms to the club membership forms.

[Adventure Racer]

Might as well attach the forms to the club membership forms.

You may joke, but this is almost exactly what the canoe club did. Not sure how official it all was, as I didn't read it very thoroughly or fill it in, and I haven't been booted out of the club yet (then again my subs are overdue too, so it's only a matter of time...)

Worrying reading indeed - though I'm going to look at the original before passing judgement, as bearing in mind Mrs H. used to be a journalist, I'm not sure how selective she's been

[Gross]

Controllers needing to be CRB checked??? Never heard so much nonsense in my life. If that's the case then BOF (and it still is BOF as no-one has officially changed the name to BO) will loose 1 active grade one controller at least.... I won't pass the checks, tried before but they weren't interested as I didn't give a UK address & it was a pointless exercise.

[Kitch]

How can any of this be enforced ?
I can't see any need for an organiser to be CRB checked.

I can't see any need for CRB atall in the sport -
Are parents crying out for it ? Are parents saying - My kids aren't going to go orienteering if these people don't have CRB ?

I can see it with schools - the government is responsible for education and child safety in schools.

The governments not responsible for orienteering.
In the same way that the government is not responsible for the people at the check out in Tescos.

We might as well have the whole population CRBed and we can all wear a badge to say we are'nt kiddy fiddlers - apart from the kiddy fidlers of course.

But hold on we can't do that because then we could identify the kiddy fiddlers (the ones without a badge) And thats not allowed is it !

No - its much better that we treat 99.9999% of the population as criminals and reduce the life developindg opportunities for our childern whilst protecting the annoymity of the 0.0001% of preverts.

Its such a pile of noping Shiite !

[Kitch]

And another thing

If I put on an event without CRB what would happen ?
Nothing
How can it ?
organising orienteering races without CRB is not illegal - i'd be surprised if doing anything without CRB is illegal.
poeple are just running scared of nothing whatsoever.

Its just a pile of crap and its everyones fault for not standing up and saying so.

If BOF decide to require everyone to be CRBed then everyone should tell BOF where to get off.

[Mrs H.]

Thank you Kitch - I thought I was going mad - well if I am at least I'm not alone.

I am not CRB checked (although I may have been in the past). In the past 10 months I have organised 17 orienteering events. 14 MADO and 2 events for girl guides and last night I put on two whites and a string course for 7 (yes 7) handicapped young people. These last three events I was asked to do (I did not ask if I could do them) and at no point has anyone ( not even the people caring for the young people at those 3 events) asked if I - or any of my helpers - are CRB checked or if our club is Clubmarked. As you know i have "sold' orienteering as an antidote to cottonwool culture and parents and carers have actually gone out of their way to thank me and my MADO people for providing the opportunity for an adventure. We have just recruited our 81st new member since September

two questions then
1. If the public is not clamouring for these "safeguards" (CRB checks prove nothing - Ian Huntley was CRB checked) then why is the government inisiting they are done.
2 irrespective of the funding aspect - which I'm sure will be quoted as the reason behind all this - how will the sport possibly survive if people like me pull out of the grass roots organisation because we simply cannot be bothered to jump through any more hoops.

Yes of course people who have direct responsibility - in loco parentis - of looking after youngsters - should be CRB checked - and a lot more comprehensively too - but why should it involve anyone else.

[graeme]

If I put on an event without CRB what would happen ?
Nothing
How can it ?

If we put these regulations in place, you wouldn't be insured. And if the event was for a sportScotland - sponsored squad, then they might lose their sponsorship.

Of course, you are right, the whole thing is insane. Actually Disclosure Scotland are now refusing to renew my application, because I'm not directly involved with children (i.e. even they can't be bothered). But the SOA do know who's got speeding ticket convictions!

[Kitch]

then why is the government inisiting they are done.
.

I think I might have said this before but it the computers' fault.

You see before computers there were lots of inane and repetitive jobs that could be used to occupy the petty minded idiots of this world.
Now computers do the inane and repetetive jobs.
Instead of culling the beurocrats they have been left alone and ingnored and this has been our folly.
From their stinky little offices all across the nation they have been plotting and planning and conniving and they have not only to come up with this rubbish but, by the force of their life sucking zombie mentality, they have been able to insinuate their evil schemes into every corner of our lives.
They have been able to do this because all the sane people think "prats, ignore them", but they can't be ignored they have banded together and quietly, insidiously they have grown strong.
Soon, soon they will reach such powers that the brains of ordinary people will explode at the pure crapness of what they have allowed to be done.

And then my friends, the geek will truely inherit the Earth.

[DIDSCO]

...and British people wonder why kids are less fit, less healthy, and more and more overweight

[SeanC]

I completely agree with everything that's been said, however I have some sympathy with BOF and particularly with the person(s) responsible for child welfare. If something unpleasant were to happen and BOF hadn't done whatever was asked of them by the government regarding child protection then its BOF and the officers responsible who could be facing villification by the tabloids and potential legal action. This is what rugby have to say: http://www.rfu.com/clubs/index.cfm/fuse ... ge_id/9218.

Although annoying, I doubt it will be the end of the sport though. A bit more work for clubs filling out forms, and someone at BOF to do the inevitable paperwork? Perhaps we could send the News of the World and the other tabiods the bill, since they're making lots of money by creating irrational, hysterical overreaction to this issue.

[Mrs H.]

Yes but the key phrase in that rugby edict is

any person who has regular supervisory contact with young people

I completely accept that must be the case. But how does that apply to event organisers and controllers?

Kids either come with their parents, their teachers or their coaches - at no point is the organiser or controller in charge of them - and to suggest any kind of responsibility it that direction by those officers will put an already endangered species on the extinct list.

and what do you think

we now need to change the culture of orienteering.

means?

People have been very willing to buy into th sport as I have presented it - as an old-fashioned adventuous pursuit - will they be so interested in yet another sanitised activity. the accident prevention people now say play grounds are so boringly safe that kids are forced to get their kick else where (like railway lines and building sites). there's a new best sller called something like The Dangerous Book for Boys" with advice on tree climbing etc. Why isn't someone out there putting 2 and 2 together.

We should be playing to our slightly subversive strengths

[Kitch]

and what do you think

we now need to change the culture of orienteering.

means?

well its very hard to say given that he minutes generally give no context to there statements whatsoever.

eg - There is now a requirement for Club Welfare officers
requirement from where, driven by what, are people suffering deprivation and neglect as a result of orienteering club membership ?

There is no point in publishing minutes to the membership if they can only be interpreted by those present at the meeting.

There is another answer to the culture question and it is this

It means that we should move from a culture of open trust and friendly relationships that gets stuff done with the minimum of fuss and the maximum of satisfaction all round to a culture of regulation, management and beurocracy where everything is a headache and a pain in the arse - in triplicate.

Now I may put up with this at work because they pay me lots of money - but not in my free time,
not to justify the existence of petty beurocrats

I'll head for the hills and forests on my own
and I suspect I'll bump into you there.

[Mrs H.]

Yeah - I'll be there - and the really funny thing is - loads of mums and dads will say quietly to little unCRB checked me :"if you've got space would you mind taking our kids with you"

[Gross]

Bringing it all back to the why we do it 23:14 and I'm just back from an evening's running in a beatiful technical forests followed by a dip in the Lake as the sun started setting Perfect