TD what?

[graeme]

Guidelines for TD1 and TD2 talk about following paths and line features. If you have an area with no paths, and a course where the navigational technique is "head across the open area to the pylons you can see from the previous control" or "the next control is on the building in the middle of the field which you can see from the previous control" or "follow the line of the pylons, even though there's fight directly underneath s you occasionally have to go away from the line and come back" what technical difficulty is it?

Graeme

[Mr timE]

Several things to consider here, the first is that Graeme, As soon as you intro choice it becomes TD3. The undergrowth getting in the way would not be a problem provided they could still see where to go all the time and there was only one possible route. (Strange how we so rarely talk about the PD in this country, it is rarely considered in comparison to TD). The way around all these situations is if you think the competitors might go off line then you just intro a taped route, if they have line of sight at all times then not a problem. Anyway anything over 400m for a leg is getting on the too long without a control side. Final thought, do we really want to have kids following pylon lines given the recent scares over cancer etc, its only a short time, but it is perhaps more an image issue.

[Supersaint]

I'm not entirely certain what the answer to your question is, but i'd have thought that they would still be considered less than TD3, buildings in fields are just as easy to find as path junctions, and pylons do still act as a handrail.

You have to be wary of using pylon lines, though , as a number of maps don't include power lines if they are there. If kids on TD1 and TD2 courses get used to following pylon's they may get confused when they find one which isn't on their map.

[mharky]

If kids on TD1 and TD2 courses get used to following pylon's they may get confused when they find one which isn't on their map.

...but what about all the paths, rides, walls, earthbanks, re-entrats, bolders, pits, knolls, depressions, thickets, vegetation boundries, clearings, ditches, gullies and spurs which they will find, but aren't on the map...

[CHS]

The other thing about Pylons is that the line isn't obvious on the GROUND, it is suprisingly hard to notice lines which are a couple of metres above head height- which means that many novices won't notice them.

[HOCOLITE]

As a novice a few years back I got really screwd up by Pylons on map I thought they were fences and ended up going to nearest fence for a line feature, well out of my way.

[rosalind]

I've had mixed experiences with Pylons.
Once they saved me from disaster, but another they confused the b'jaysus outta me as I went in search of a fence as Hocolite did...
I like to remember the time they saved my hide.
Ahh.

[DaveR]

Back to Graeme's questions:
Away from a line feature must be TD3
Pylons might technically count as TD2 but it sounds
horrible and very likely to lose and upset youngsters
and beginners whose navigation is not robust.
If in doubt it should be taped!

As a father of various children who are starting off going out
on their own I think it is VERY important that particularly
TD1 and TD2 courses follow the guidelines.


(I suspect that Graeme knows all this already )

[guest]

I once followed a guide book walk with the instruction "proceed in a straight line towards the building you can see in the distance" the trouble was a blizzzard had set in and I could't see anything except the fast disappearing foot prints of the person who had gone before across the snowy field. what happens if it gets foggy?

Have you thought of the continental "jalone" method of route taping, where a line of strategically placed streamers help reassure the junior they are going the right way. I've even seen the occasional smiley or sad face at the O-ringen to make sure kids don't go too far astray on a tricky stretch

[rosalind]

Yeah, I think the happy/sad faces are a good idea.
Spotted one of them in Graythwaite.
Twas a sad face but luckily I wasn't heading in that direction

[redkite]

Smiley faces were also used during the last Croeso on Pwll Du. they seemed to be well received.

[HOCOLITE]

Have you thought of the continental "jalone" method of route taping, where a line of strategically placed streamers help reassure the junior they are going the right way. I've even seen the occasional smiley or sad face at the O-ringen to make sure kids don't go too far astray on a tricky stretch

Smiley faces are better than streamers if the kids are expecting them, streamers aren't good for the colour blind and also can be placed higher than the kids normal view point when O'ing.

I lost my eldest in Wales when he was following streamers, now if it were signs to Fat Pigs he wouldn't have missed them

[graeme]

Thanks for all that. Its not rocket science to guess I'm talking about the "Junior" course
at Ganavan and we're violating guidelines all over the place (if you can violate guidelines on a course of unspecified difficulty). Although there aren't handrails most of the way, it really is as easy as we could make it without being string. Smiley faces on the "wrong" path aren't exactly an option...Turning Dave's argument on its head, I certainly wouldn't rate success on this course as an indication that competitors were ready for TD3.

The alternative was no kiddies course at all: I think it'll be fine but we'll have to see how it goes.

Graeme

[Gross]

what about trying the Lithuanian method for younger kiddies... there is a taped route all the way round the course but it doesn't neccessarily follow the best route & it might have some detours and long cuts on it. So those unsure of navigation can get round the course safely... those a bit more technically aware can cut corners etc etc....

I think Juliana Grant wrote an article about something similar in Hungary in Compassport a couple of years back....

[jab]

As you're talking about a specific course, I think the most important thing is to include as much information as possible in the final details so that parents can help their child decide whether the course is OK for them. I realise that not everyone reads final details thoroughly, but I suspect that the parents of very young juniors read them more diligently than most - we certainly do so that we can warn youngest of anything unexpected or unusual. Or am I just a neurotic and over-protective parent?
Oldest is now 10 and much more able to cope with something different, but got thrown by the unexpected when he was 6 or 7.