Elite Class Sizes

[rosco]

Yes I'm all for that. Even though I'm not within 15% of the top. That would give me a real incentive to get out and train.

Maybe we could have promotion and relegation? Finish in the bottom 3 - you're relegated to L sonny! Top 3 in L? You are now an elite orienteer!

Finish in the bottom 3 of S - you must organise 3 elite events.... or something.

[Simple Soul]

If an Elite is considered to be the best in a category, then it must be fewer than the remainder. The Elite, being the best must be selected, and I go along with Supersaint in believing that someone should have achieved M/W 21 Championship standard in the previous year, or in a recent Event, to be considered selected. The standard should be maintained even if relatively few qualify as they will be a true Elite. The National Events become part of the selection procedure. (Overseas competitors by similar review of results)

Graeme, did you really suggest recreational Elite runners go first to create (elephant) tracks so the real Elite can have a good run. Does this create a level playing field?

[graeme]

Yes I did suggest that. And yes it does create as level a playing field as you'll ever get outside a mass start, since to be a late starting "real elite" (as it currently stands) you only have to do well in the qualifying races (currently UK Cup) which are open to all. Unlike for example the JK sprint where selection was on a whim (which is fine for a promotional event).

It's not a particularly revolutionary suggestion, as it is exactly what we've had for the last ten years.

We used to have the "Championship at National Events" requirement before qualification was switched to the UK Cup. Personally, I agree that selection for BEOC classic should be based on performance in classic races, not MTBO, Night-O and Park races.

I dont think you should select for the JK unless the start list is oversubscribed- we should encourage a different attitude between "National Championships" and "Festival of Orienteering".

[tendon]

Part of the reason for the original question: There was a brief discussion leading up to the BOC as to how to make the elite race more like an international. The format of the WCup seemed to work well - elite race prior to the national, faster runners last off, with elite runners in the terrain on their own. However, that did make for a very long day.

With 60 runners, 2 minute splits, randon start sequence and running times of up to 2 hours, the spread is over 4 hours so can't be managed - hence the very quick dismissal of this for BOC. However, with a smaller number of runners, and seeding to put fastest last, the spread could be compressed to nearer 2hrs. This perhaps is manageable in the context of spring/summer national events (and BOC).

In my opinion, it must be an ultimate goal to make UK level 1 elite events as close in style and format to international competition as pssible - maps, plannning, race procedure and forest conditions - I therefore wonder if this might be more possible if the elite classes reduce in size. Certainly, the feedback from the JK sprint, with selected 15 on each, seems to be very positive (granted not quite the same as a classic race). It may be the only way to recreate that WCup feeling in a domestic setting?

[Angry Haggis]

Graeme, did you really suggest recreational Elite runners go first to create (elephant) tracks so the real Elite can have a good run. Does this create a level playing field?

Funny you should say that - I'm off first at tomorrow's race. Only running Elite as it's the same course as Open. In fact I normally run Short these days.

[Kitch]

Tendon

International racing is not about the format, its about the standard of the competitors, the pressure, what is at stake, the culmination of a year's training, focussed effort and preparation(or two, or five). Its about coping and peaking at your personal primary goal.
Domestic races won't be the primary goal for our top internationalists.

You could perhaps crank up the pressure using Nick's proposal of having a qualifying round and finals. But to put the pressure on our internationalists would require restricting the A final to a ridiculously small number - 4 or 6 people only a level where failure to qualify is a real possibility for everyone.

[tendon]

Kitch

True, and agreed

However, the BEOC guidelines, for example, do state that the event should provide an equivalent type of competition to that held at the World Championships. To me, that implies a wider match than simply course length, say.

Make the elite races a showcase - good for the elite, good for the sport. And the entry criteria become incentives in themselves (as noted in the earlier posts!)