Mandatory crossing points

[Guest88]

Yes, I'm really struggling to understand the analogy with David Beckham here...

If Beckham had discovered that he had a spiked drink containing banned substances before winning the world cup, and had got away with it - I expect that he would have kept quiet about it and not volunteered the information on some chat website.

I volunteered the information that I now realise that I was in error in case that it helps with the analysis of why people are going out of bounds and what can be done about it - that is all....

[FatBoy]

I was one of the (few) people on first leg of men's short who observed the OOB and lost 6-8 places as a result - that group went from being 10m behind me to maybe 30-40m in front. I never regained those places. Anybody who didn't see the purple hashing must be really blind, stupid or lying. It's cheating - there's no other word for it.

Somebody said the road wasn't OOB on the individual - well it was on my map (purple X's) and I didn't use it then either (even though it would have been quicker then as well). It was my experience of the individual of how low-vis it was in there that made me want to go round rather than straight - what you lose in time by distance hopefully you make up by not thrashing around, so for me it was the best route even without the road, although maybe not the quickest. Not much in it though.

I feel frustrated for the planner and the other officials. They've done their very best to keep things safe and fair and many many people have not repaid them for that. I felt in the immediate aftermath that perhaps the planning did lead people to cheat, but the courses were very enjoyable and you shouldn't have to compromise your courses to stop people cheating. Part of the selection of route is looking at all the symbols including the purple. If you feel not being able to use the road makes that route not as fast then go another way!

Re Fence crossings I think we have to educate on the correct symbols and use them. Final details rather than explaining where you can and can't go should simply reinforce these symbols. Anybody found deliberately breaking the rules should be DQ'd (allowing for the genuinely lost - although barrier tape helps here). It is an unfortunate fact of life that some people don't read final details and a realistic fact that you can't be expected to remember everything while you're out there. If we use the same symbols every time then it reduces the amount that has to be remembered as a one-off.

[Fratello de Pingu]

The definition of "Cheating" requires intent.

Sorry i made a mistake in the definitions.

With the analogy i was only trying to say that the rules were still broken, whether on purpose or by mistake

[Guest88]

Well I am neither blind nor stupid.

As I already said...if I was deliberately cheating, I would not own up to having gone on the road on this forum thread.

I could probably get all intellectual and start talking about how the brain works, simplification of whats on the map to see what you need to without actually seeing everything else even though it is there. But I don't really I have time at the moment.

[gg]

Great relay course, good mixture of fast bits and tricky bits, really enjoyed it. Didn't have any problem working out that the road was out of bounds and thought the purple on the map was perfectly adequate.

[Supersaint]

Yep, the OOB on the road was quite clearly marked, as i would have expected the planner's to have done. They had put them there so that they could still use the (great) courses, it's not their fault if people don't understand the symbols. I noticed the road route whilst i was running, saw it wasn't allowed so quickly looked for an alternative.

As for the individual day i will admit to going into an OOB field, mainly cos i thought i was somewhere different, and as soon as i realised (about 10metres into the field) i turned around and went straight back the way i'd entered, even though it would have been far quicker to continue through the field. I'd be disappointed if someone had intentionally done something similar knowing what they had done was wrong. As for the fence crossings, i went over them at the marked points as i remembered reading about them in the details, but as has already been found out many people don't read them from cover to cover (if at all!). The only way to get round this would be to put the uncrossable barrier symbol on the map (although going on recent races even that doesn't work all the time!)

[Paulo]

Maybe the organisers could have asked for the voltage to have been turned up on those electric fences - that might have encouraged people to use the proper crossing points.

I thought all OOB roads were clearly marked on all the maps and I used them on both days even though both days it would have been quicker to use the roads. Perhaps the X symbol on roads being OOB should have been reinforced in the program (I don't think it was mentioned there, and clearly some people don't understand that symbol). Or maybe some people didn't believe it was really OOB ("it's a public road, surely anyone can go on it..."). It's rather hard to enforce though - as evidenced by the planner even trying to stand on the OOB route and still having problems stopping people!

[Fratello de Pingu]

Well I am neither blind nor stupid.

i wasn't trying to suggest that you are.

[Simon E]

In the 1997 Edition of the BOF Rules and Guidelines my last post is pretty much endorsed in Guideline 19, specifically in G19.4.1 Compulsory Crossing Points

I can find no equivalent in the current BOF Rules, Appendices or Event Guidelines.

Anyone know why?

I think this is partially an oversight during the rationalisation process we went through. We took a lot of material from all over the place and put it in Appendix B (Course Planning) as a temporary measure. It looks like we probably missed a few key bits of the old Guideline 19, since I'd agree that Appendix B is light on crossing points (but then Guideline 19 had over 5 pages, which is clearly over the top).

The long-term intention was to incorporate stuff like this in an updated Course Planning Handbook, as already referenced from Appendix B. The current Course Planning Handbook does include information on crossing points but not quite to the level being suggested.

[Guest88]

fratello> I was responding to fatboy's post that was one above yours.

[Gnitworp]

Re post before last. Thanks Simon

[FatBoy]

I could probably get all intellectual and start talking about how the brain works, simplification of whats on the map to see what you need to without actually seeing everything else even though it is there. But I don't really I have time at the moment.

So you've trained yourself to ignore OOB? I could get all intellectual myself - the basic fact is if you see something unusual you focus on it. The only way you simplify something out is by being familiar with it. You can't subconciously block out something that is unusual.

[Jon X]

I could probably get all intellectual and start talking about how the brain works, simplification of whats on the map to see what you need to without actually seeing everything else even though it is there. But I don't really I have time at the moment.

So you've trained yourself to ignore OOB? I could get all intellectual myself - the basic fact is if you see something unusual you focus on it. The only way you simplify something out is by being familiar with it. You can't subconciously block out something that is unusual.

Sorry Fatboy, I am on Guest's side here - for the simple reason that I too was on the Men's Short and I too did not initially notice the OOB printed on the road and so went that way. (If it is any consolation then if you are who I think you are, you were still a minute ahead of me when you got to the control at the end of the leg!).

Maybe I wasn't looking at my map enough (as I tried to work past lots of people after missing number one), but all I saw when I chose my route was 'paths to the left and round the green'. (I guess this is similar to the 'simplification' that Guest talks about). After that I just legged it after the big queue of people in front!

The first time I saw the OOB hatching at all was when I looked at my map while running along the road to see where to cut in. It bemused me a bit to be honest as I hadn't noticed it before and I had a big queue in front of me who had all taken the same route.

If I had seen the OOB on the map I would not have gone that way. But I didn't see it.

That doesn't make it right that I and others went that way, although with hindsight I daresay the planner or controller might wish they had added an extra intermediate control in the open depression (say) to the west so that the road was not an option anyway......

[tendon]

Extra control - no, would spoil the route choice

Marshall and tape/signs - definitely.

Part of the learning curve , for me and for the sport perhaps - don't assume that, if it's obvious to some, it's obvious to all.

Plan round it or mitigate

As an edit - thanks to the three who went down the road who contributed to this debate - it has helped me understand what happened better, and so will be better able to address this next time.

Changing the subject (please) - who's going to win the JK - answers on the proper thread