Prizes; Spot the difference

[Mrs H.]

I don't see the dilemma - you just say yes......it doesn't stop you finding something else for the other classes does it? Infact you could use it as a bargaining tool (it has been done ) Long course winners get trophies, short course winners don't that's fine too but I agree with Stodgetta - the more prizes the better

[NeilC]

Suppose a sponsor came along and said "I've got X prizes (where X is the number of age categories at an event) to give away, how about I give them to all the long course winners?

The organiser, knowing that there were currently no similar offers in the pipeline for other categories, then has to decide whether to take the prizes and give them to the long course winners, or to turn the offer down and not give them to any category so as not to be unfair.

It could happen.

In which case, what should he/she do?

Exactly what has happened at BOC. Major sponsors providing prizes for the A/L classes, the event sourcing mementoes for the other classes. I think there was talk of the local brewery providing a prize for M/W10B at one stage.

[guest]

BOC Prizes... yes that may be happening, but first 3 on Long / A classes, and only momentoes to winner of S classes (even if they have more competitors).
We want Prizes for the winner OR first 3 in EVERY class (NO distinction between Long and Short, and momentoes for first 10%;
IF not momentoes for EVERY competitor, as is the case in almost every international multi-day event.

[Tatty]

Our club had a W10 who finished 5th, way off the pace time wise, but got her jar of clotted cream and photo at the BOC last year. It made her day and has increased her interest in the sport. Her brother who ran M14, got nothing, and has given up!!
The juniors need prizes, but why should, as DIDSCO suggest, the veterans go without. It only need be a token. In the past clubs of winners were asked to sponsor trophies. My club did this when I won the W35 or 40 B at the JK or BOC a few years ago. The trophies for B classes seem to have disappeared, but SOC paid for it. Where has it gone and why isn't it being used?

[Gross]

(NO distinction between Long and Short, and momentoes for first 10%;
.

But there is one big distinction... winners of the A / L / E courses are the British Champions in their age groups.... winners of B / S courses are only winners of that competition....

In fact it's daft that there are B / S courses at all in a National Championships... but I guess it's there because BOF want to make money out of it:)

[HOCOLITE]

In the past clubs of winners were asked to sponsor trophies. My club did this when I won the W35 or 40 B at the JK or BOC a few years ago. The trophies for B classes seem to have disappeared, but SOC paid for it. Where has it gone and why isn't it being used?

Our club donated the M45S Night trophy which other half won a couple of years ago but then BOF withdrew S trophies from the nights. Other half had a long discussion via email re this as club paid for trophy and it specifies the event and class. BOF I think said they just would not use the trophy, I could be wrong here. I know part of problem is that there were not trophies for each class and also they have a lot of hastle getting the trophies back. So forget trophies and give sponsored prizes it really improves the feelgood factor and increases interest in the ceremony.

[Snail]

We want Prizes for the winner OR first 3 in EVERY class (NO distinction between Long and Short, and momentoes for first 10%;

Disagree. I am running the Short class in BOC Individual, because I am not particularly fit but want to run for my club in the Relays without letting them down. If I happen to come in the top 1 or 3 (which is unlikely!) it would be embarrassing to get a prize when many better competitors in the L class have not got one.

I don't have an issue with more prizes / momentoes for A & B classes - juniors need more encouragement than seniors/vets.

[awk]

Agree with Snail - I'd be embarrassed to win a prize on the S class when so many on the L are so much better (different if S and L were run at different champs, and there was an M45 Short Championship).

Far, far better to give any extra prizes to the next on the Long - never mind top 3, top 6 would be far better.

The exception to this is on the junior courses, where it should be top 6 (or more) on the A, and top plenty on the B.

I also agree with Hocolite about the special status of M10/W10B, which is effectively the M/W8A (!). I'm not advocating formalising an A class for the 8s, but I do remember when offspring won the M10B at the British at Graythwaite, was the only one on his class to receive anything, and didn't even receive a certificate. Pottery mugs DON'T work in school assemblies - all that was left was one very bemused 8-year old, and one golden opportunity missed for publicity in school .

[Mrs H.]

I guess the ultimate extension of this is that only M/W21 E are actually THE British champions and everything else is tokenism.

Doesn't sound much fun does it

I think i'll save my entry fee (which incidentally is the same as the long course) and use it to finance the whole of the my season's entry in the NGOC Mini-League (and you can win a £10 Ultrasport voucher there). Haven't quite decided on prizes for the MADO mini-League yet But I'm sure they're going to be really good

[tendon]

IF not momentoes for EVERY competitor, as is the case in almost every international multi-day event.

1 - it is the British Championships, not "Happy Holidays"

2- wasn't there a discussion about BOC costs recently?

[HOCOLITE]

Desperately wanted to give medals to top three in primary classes at schools event. But this year funding/entry not quite high enough, so only to top two. However every competitor got a certificate, and I know that the kids were presented these in assembly and the certificate is copied on the wall and put into offstead file, at one of the schools.

Certificates are important to juniors they can put them in their record of achievement, take them to school and have them presented in assembly etc. This is good publicity for the sport. Schools like kids who win things at British Championships, they publicise it too.

[RobL]

I'd be happy with a certificate as a momento for a greater number of successful competitors. Eg all gold/championship times. The cost would be negligible... though of course Neil might end up signing his name a few hundred times

[Gnitworp]

As a recent newcomer I must say I don't understand the L&S categories, why is the short an inferior class? (100m is not inferior to 200m).

Except in athletics you can enter both 100m and 200m but in O you can't enter both M40L and M40S.

There is no (eg) M40S british champion and it was felt that the BOC prizegiving should celebrate the 'real' winners without distraction.

Exactly - see CompassSport Postbag August 2005 (On being PC)

Your prediction was right Mrs H

[Mrs H.]

it is the British Championships, not "Happy Holidays"

I guess what we're moving into here is a debate about the nature of the competition itself. In reality there can only be 2 British Champions - one man and one woman - the best two in the country - everything else is tokenism.

That's fine too - the rest of us can save our time and money and stay at home/do something else.

But as it stands at the moment BOC is as much a social event as anything else for most of us which makes it a great money spinner for BOF and hopefully worth all the effort for the organising clubs.

No-one round here is claiming that people who win the short courses are British Champions - that hasn't even been suggested so stop getting steamed up about it. But are the long course winners British Champions either - they're probably not the best orienteers in the country (unless they're winning 21E) and they may not even be the best orienteers in their age group when the likes of Stella Lewsley chooses to run W35/40 and frequently wins instead of the W50 which she is. So that begs the question who actually is W50 British champion.

As it stands BOC can only ever be about who wins their class on the day.

So which way do you want to take it?

Oh and Jim, don't try any of that "inferior people" malarky round here - remember, Mother Theresa and Nelson Mandela never ran the long course in their lives - still doesn't make them "inferior people" does it?

[graeme]

(on relay prizes) I'm waiting for graeme to come on and formulate this as an optimisation problem... actually i've already done it in my head... solution coming soon

Well, not as an optimisation problem, but I'll take the blame for first leg prizes as (I think) we did it for the first time at the Scottish.

Why? Certainly not to reward the best athlete, but to add a bit of interest to the early part of the race, at for anyone unfortunate enough to not have strong teammates. Knowing it would be contentious we got the money donated by specific individuals (thank you Rob Lee) rather than from event expenses - I can give my own money to whoever I like!

The right strategy for a first leg relay is to be conservative - you can't win the relay on the first leg,but you can certainly lose it. Coming back 2mins up on the pack is almost pointless (if its a decent pack), 2mins down is a disaster. I hoped that by introducing a bit of personal incentive things might split up a bit - good relay planning tries to break groups up without being "unfair". This is just another way to do it.

Its a good deal less stupid than prizes for whoever eased up most on the penultimate leg or selection races to see who took it easiest at BOC/BRC!

Sadly, I wasn't there to see if it had any effect.

On short course prizes. Its nice to give prizes to people who have done well by their own standards, and the winners of short courses often haven't - I have a prize from M21S at the JK from a year I was injured on the entry deadline which is almost embarrassing (but since Mr.Lard was second, I dont feel I stole it from a more deserving case) I also have the M40S British Champion prize (from the Sprint race champs, which was then called short race). I'm rather proud of it, even though I'm not the best M40 sprinter, because by a combination of (my) luck and (their) misfortune I won on the day.