BOC - Moan about entry costs

[awk]

But as you posted upthread, junior numbers have tumbled far less than M21 anyway: Last year even M21L (15 years worth of people) was no bigger than M65L (5 years worth) - at my first BOC it was more like 10:1. No other sport compromises its premier event so much for the needs of a few (English) juniors (and yes, I did take juniors to BOC2005).Graeme

I agree about the issue over M/W21s, but if you are only worried about having the best event for the best, then 21L is irrelevant, it's 21E that matters, and they aren't compromised at all - they opt in and out as they please.

As for compromises for English juniors, what compromises? Not a single location/date BOC decision in recent years has benefited junior orienteering including, Hocolite, the decision to send the juniors to Penhale. What you would have had would have been a high profile championship alongside the elite (and the decision to go there was NOT a funding one - I should know, I was at the meetings that discussed it - it was for purely developmental reasons) on a British bank holiday weekend. What you got was one of the worst attended BOCs by juniors ever. And if it hadn't been for a handful of very committed leaders/coaches, it would have been a whole lot worse. Penhale did absolutely nothing to promote junior orienteering - it was purely for the convenience of a very small number of vociferous parents. There was no sense in it at all, but a lot of short sightedness.

[graeme]

As for compromises for English juniors, what compromises? Not a single location/date BOC decision in recent years has benefited junior orienteering

Total rubbish.

I have in front of me a letter from BOF which says that we cannot hold BOC2008 on our preferred date for no reason other than because it clashes with English school exams.

I described this earlier in the thread: by all means stickup for your own interests, but please stick to the facts.

Graeme

[awk]

As for compromises for English juniors, what compromises? Not a single location/date BOC decision in recent years has benefited junior orienteering

Total rubbish.

I have in front of me a letter from BOF which says that we cannot hold BOC2008 on our preferred date for no reason other than because it clashes with English school exams....but please stick to the facts.

That is your interpretation - the letter doesn't say anything of the sort, although it is one reason for what it does say which is that BOC shouldn't be held after May Day weekend. This is just as much about Welsh, Irish and Scottish exams (not just school ones either).

However, I do concede that this decision is one that was influenced by junior demands, so to that extent it may well be regarded as having compromised the vets championship. The irony, and part of the point I was trying to make, is that the resultant locations/dates have in fact not benefited junior orienteering one jot.

Incidentally, the sport's premier event is surely not the BOC, but the British Elite Championships.

Actually I find it another irony that I'm even arguing this point given that I was and am an advocate of a British Juniors being separated out from British Vets and British Elite partly for this very reason of compromise affecting the juniors.

[HOCOLITE]

[Actually I find it another irony that I'm even arguing this point given that I was and am an advocate of a British Juniors being separated out from British Vets and British Elite partly for this very reason of compromise affecting the juniors.[/quote]

Only if this is the JIRCs, but then the juniors would not want 10/12's at this I'd guess. There's too much travelling around as it is with all the selection races and FCC we don't need a sep junior BOC as well. Remember we have a thread all about too many fixtures already.

[graeme]

AWK: If the constraints had anything to do with Scottish exams, then the dates would be relevant to Scottish exams (i.e. NOT early May).

But in general I agree with you - a constraint has been imposed on everyone for the supposed benefit of English juniors, but the outcome doesn't benefit *them* either. I also agree that BEOC is the premier event, but that's become moot since BOF council decided it should be combined with BOC unless terrain is unsuitable.

[awk]

AWK: If the constraints had anything to do with Scottish exams, then the dates would be relevant to Scottish exams (i.e. NOT early May).

Sorry to be so pernickety, but, having double checked with colleagues north of the border, Scottish school exams do start early May, indeed at the very beginning, going on to mid-June (although petering out a bit towards the end).

There was a time when the English suggested mid to late May would be OK (as at that time English exams generally started after half term). The Scots robustly (and understandably) suggested that May Day weekend was the latest if exams were to be a consideration!

Glad we agree on the rest thought!

[awk]

There's too much travelling around as it is with all the selection races and FCC we don't need a sep junior BOC as well. Remember we have a thread all about too many fixtures already.

Agree - but a separate junior BOC doesn't preclude that. After all, the one mooted for last year's World Cup would have also been a selection race, the FCC Final, and a chance to see the best in the world. Instead, an extra race was added to the junior calendar, down at the far end of Cornwall.

[HOCOLITE]

The FCC final can't be a selection race as competitors are precluded, and may not have made final due to fitness or illness etc earlier and can't be prevended from running a selection race.

[awk]

The FCC final can't be a selection race as competitors are precluded, and may not have made final due to fitness or illness etc earlier and can't be prevended from running a selection race.

It is!!! JWOC.

Also - only involved 18-20s. Others are not.

[graeme]

Sorry to be so pernickety, but, having double checked with colleagues north of the border, Scottish school exams do start early May,

Very pernickety, since thats exactly what I said. the clause "NOT early May" refers to the date for BOC, not the Scottish exams.

[awk]

Very pernickety, since thats exactly what I said. the clause "NOT early May" refers to the date for BOC, not the Scottish exams.

I see what you mean. However, when I was involved in the discussions (which was a while ago, so things could well have moved on), it was agreed that the latest date any champs involving juniors should be was May Bank Holiday, and one of the main reasons was that any later put the champs into the Scottish exam period, which starts immediately after that date.