Definition of an 'Open Map'

[McCloy]

Could someone define when a map is deemed open for me. As i would understand that if a map were sealed, say with a label, would the map not be said to be open when that seal is broken?

[mharky]

What on earth are you talking abuot?

[Fratello de Pingu]

I think he is talking about mass start realays, etc. where you are given the map pre-start but it is rolled up and sealed with a sticker, or something.
The question is when is the map counted as being opened, i.e. can the runner break the seal, before the start, but leave the map rolled up?

[Roger]

Depends whether or not you fancy yourself as a petty bureaucrat!

I always break the seal early, but I never look at the map early (and didn't, even when we used to get the maps in near-transparent brown paper bags so that you could examine your course without breaking the seal). IMHO, 'How quickly can you open a paper bag?' should not be tested as an orienteering skill.

If you're trying to disqualify people who are attempting to cheat, the easiest incontrovertible evidence is indeed a broken seal. But using this will catch many people who aren't actually trying to cheat. If you must, use video cameras or spotters to pick up those who are looking at their maps early -- and ignore those who are merely trying to get a smooth start on the map-reading.

[NeilC]

Though if the final details say something like "There will be random map inspections in the waiting pen and anyone seen tampering with the map may be disqualified" then Roger's approach is a risky one.

[Simon E]

The relevant BOF Rule is:

7.2.9 Competitors shall not examine, or attempt to examine, their pre-marked map until permitted to do so by a race official.

Holding your brown paper bag up to the light and trying to see through it is not allowed, but we seem to have moved away from brown paper bags recently.

Breaking the seal on a rolled map is not an offence, unless you have been specifically told not to do it. Unrolling the map and looking at it is.

We could start a debate about how much time you save by breaking the seal early, but I have to admit I always do it...

Simon

[rocky]

i dont think that relays should be decided by who has the longest fingernails

though they would have been an advantage when clawing your way up those muddy banks yesterday!

[tendon]

So its ok if I don't bother sealing down the maps for this BRC then? Since everyone breaks the seal and doesn't look, it seems pointless adding this step into the process - can get away with one label instead of 2.

Ever seen anyone looking down the tube, or through the brown paper bag? As individuals, you all know you don't "cheat", but do you trust your competitors? If not, then the procedure must be that the seal must not be broken prior to the start.

There was a thread earlier about people looking at maps before a mass start race. The answer seemed to be that the procedure must be explicit to avoid individual interpretation. Your break the seal, the person next to you partially unfolds the map, someone down the line opens it fully - who is wrong?

(Sorry for the heated moment - trying to get all the map overlays out to the printers so short of sleep!!!)

[Godders]

So its ok if I don't bother sealing down the maps for this BRC then? Since everyone breaks the seal and doesn't look, it seems pointless adding this step into the process - can get away with one label instead of 2.

It took about 3 hours to seal the BUSA relay maps. Don't envy you with the British.

Ideally I would have used the Scandinavian method of laying maps infront of the competitors for the mass start, stapled to planks of wood, but this was scuppered by having 2 maps back to back.

[tendon]

It's not just the mass start - it applies to second and third legs as well.

Anyway, we have tried to be more explicit:

"Maps will be folded and sealed … and MUST NOT be opened before the start. There will be random map inspections in the waiting pen and anyone found, or seen, tampering with the map may be disqualified."

Petty bureaucrat - moi?

I know who I'll be checking!!

[FatBoy]

I can say every relay 1st leg I've ever done (since 1983) I've opened the seal but never looked (honestly). The reason is that I don't want to be trying to open a seal while in the middle of a herd of elephants - too dangerous to be attempting something you don't normally do on the run in those conditions. I think if you went into a 1st leg start pen with no warning and did a random check probably more than 50% would have broken it. When I run later legs (not very often) I normally open on the run as it's less congested. The only way to make sure people don't look is not to give them their map and use map trees/boards etc.

[guest]

At the John o' Goats event in Lyme Park, a male competitor not only opened his map but was planning the route and no-one said anything to him except me. (He ignored me!)

[lilywhite]

at least he didn't win

[John Morris]

Anybody can get into a paper bag!

It's fighting your way out that's difficult...

[Roger]

You break the seal, the person next to you partially unfolds the map, someone down the line opens it fully - who is wrong?

Everyone who has broken rule 7.2.9, helpfully quoted by Simon, is wrong. Namely, everyone who has examined, or attempted to examine, their pre-marked map before being permitted to do so by a race official.