BOC - Moan about entry costs

[HOCOLITE]

Awk I don't disagree with you but if we don't use the periferal areas we'd really get sick of the Midlands Yorkshire and Lakes. I remember trapsing up to Oban for a British. It was a Bank holiday for us but not the Scots. We were able to take 6 and 8 year olds out of school and travel up on Friday. Now to get to Oban it's a flight and car hire, plus airport parking......
As a parent you get tired of weekend after weekend away for FCC and selection races, so only choose local events on other weekends. I'd certainly think twice about the North East and Scotland for a British particularly if it was between November and April.

[graeme]

Indeed, whilst I would not want to argue against the important need to boost numbers

I will then.

This is the British Championships FFS. We should surely be able to put quality of terrain above attendance for at least one event per year, and surely this is it?

Its a classic orienteering fallacy that all events should be the same and have the same goals.

Graeme

PS BOC2008 will likely have the lowest numbers ever since BOF nixed our plan for an Anglo-friendly borders area, (you'll have to traipse up to a new bit of Culbin which will, at least, be fantastic).

[RJ]

So long as BOC and the other 'Elite' races attract.... and get.... the top 33% in the various classes then it will be a true Championship. Most people are only there to make up the 'numbers'. Yes... I understand the financial aspect... but don't let that dictate the overall direction.

Yes, BOF use BOC to raise a large quantity of their annual funds. Perhaps that is a constraint that could be removed, and the funding found elsewhere... by a small increase in the general levy at C4.

And there seems little point in having championships on poor quality terrain where competitors are poorly tested.

The real test for BOC should be whether the event produces the true champions that year. On the question of M/W10.... at this end of the scale I doubt we ever have a true representation of ability. I think it just too early to be looking for champions! So, perhaps we don't need to concern ourselves about low numbers.

So long as participation is increasing lower down in the system... at District events.... and has high numbers in those age groupings then the champions will eventually appear.

[awk]

Indeed, whilst I would not want to argue against the important need to boost numbers

I will then.
This is the British Championships FFS. We should surely be able to put quality of terrain above attendance for at least one event per year, and surely this is it?
Its a classic orienteering fallacy that all events should be the same and have the same goals.

Which is why I also said "if (and it is if) one wanted to boost numbers".

Having said that - I disagree that quality of area comes first. What should come first is quality of competition, to which quality of area is certainly an important factor, but also means things such as a decent field, which several junior classes struggle to get. There is no point holding a BOC on a brilliant area miles from anywhere on a non-holiday weekend if a significant number of the contenders can't make it - it is no longer the race that decides the champion, but the time/financial wealth of the families and individuals concerned. It is little wonder that junior numbers at the BOC have tumbled so badly over the years.

I've no objection to a British Elite being held in Outer Mongolia if that is deemed appropriate, but for the junior champs to be sent off to the far flung corners of the kingdom so frequently on such awkward dates will do nothing to stem decline (an issue of quality as well as quantity), and puts unfair pressure on parents of children anxious to get selected (having effectively been told that you need to be racing virtually all the selection races to be considered).

Awk I don't disagree with you but if we don't use the periferal areas we'd really get sick of the Midlands Yorkshire and Lakes.

agree - but my point is that the ongoing sequence of these events on the periphery is affecting things, not the odd (or even alternate) ones.

[graeme]

There is no point holding a BOC on a brilliant area miles from anywhere on a non-holiday weekend if a significant number of the contenders can't make it - it is no longer the race that decides the champion, but the time/financial wealth of the families and individuals concerned. It is little wonder that junior numbers at the BOC have tumbled so badly over the years.

Well yes, it was rather strange that the date Scotland was allocated for BOC (required by BOF central, not fixtures committee) was on a non-(Scottish) holiday weekend in the middle of (Scottish) school exams. Its sorted out now, and I look forward to seeing Scottish juniors finally getting a decent shot at BOC.

But as you posted upthread, junior numbers have tumbled far less than M21 anyway: Last year even M21L (15 years worth of people) was no bigger than M65L (5 years worth) - at my first BOC it was more like 10:1. No other sport compromises its premier event so much for the needs of a few (English) juniors (and yes, I did take juniors to BOC2005).

Graeme

[HOCOLITE]

[
No other sport compromises its premier event so much for the needs of a few (English) juniors (and yes, I did take juniors to BOC2005).

Graeme[/quote]

Can you explain this? Why has BOC been compromised for the needs of a few English juniors? Last year they wanted to run the Junior BOC at the WOC to get funding rather than at BOC. They saw sense when harangued by a number of people who did not want to have sep champs. We all have to travel at some time but every one has their threshhold whether it be time or finance. It is always easier for the centrally located, so using all regions gives everytone the opportunities it's just the nature of our geography means that the champs do not get attendance by everyone

[NeilC]

And I thought we lived in quite a small country. No doubt the inhabitants of Armadale moan when the Skye champs are held in Uig.

[tim sleepless]

Awk I don't disagree with you but if we don't use the periferal areas we'd really get sick of the Midlands Yorkshire and Lakes. I remember trapsing up to Oban for a British. It was a Bank holiday for us but not the Scots. We were able to take 6 and 8 year olds out of school and travel up on Friday. Now to get to Oban it's a flight and car hire, plus airport parking......
As a parent you get tired of weekend after weekend away for FCC and selection races, so only choose local events on other weekends. I'd certainly think twice about the North East and Scotland for a British particularly if it was between November and April.

Let's not forget also that in the age of cheap flights, events are also competing with continental alternatives. There's going be quite a bit SE contingent in Bordeaux rather than the JK this year.

[Vidalos]

It's the M/W 10's and 12's that are the real problem. Very often there are only one or two.

OK then, in this case the glimmer of hope is that it is the largest M10 entry for 7 years ,and is in fact the fourth highest M10 field ever.

W10 numbers are, on the other hand, as you say worryingly low.

Just going back to an earlier part of this thread

Yes all this is true but when you look at the names of the entrants the vast majority are the offspring of active adults in the 35-45 ages groups. Therefore the number of juniors in these classes will currently be dependent on the number of active adults who can be encouraged to make the journey to wherever the event is

Surely this means we are not attracting any new families to this level of competition.

And that should be even more worrying

[HOCOLITE]

You are probably right Vidalos. Welcome by the way. We and the H's came into O because our children tried it liked it and had some success. Then a parent got hooked and we travelled far and wide. There have been times when I've thought not another trip up the M6, but we kept on going. The children in the lower age groups now seem to be children who have come into O because their parents did it, so they are 'a natural product' of previous O marketing/development.

[Gross]

Let's not forget also that in the age of cheap flights, events are also competing with continental alternatives. There's going be quite a bit SE contingent in Bordeaux rather than the JK this year.

And if you are really keen to avoid the HOC Regional Event in May you can come to the Vilnius 3 Days instead......

[mikey]

And if you are really keen to avoid the HOC Regional Event in May you can come to the Vilnius 3 Days instead......

But if you did that, you would miss both the British Sprint Championships and the UK Cup Middle Race at Rowney Warren.

On-line entry now available for both.

[Gross]

And if you are really keen to avoid the HOC Regional Event in May you can come to the Vilnius 3 Days instead......

But if you did that, you would miss both the British Sprint Championships and the UK Cup Middle Race at Rowney Warren.

On-line entry now available for both.

No choice really..... Milton Kynes or........

[mikey]

No choice really..... Milton Kynes or........

I know, it's obvious. Milton Keynes and Rowney Warren it is.

On-line entries available now.

[tim sleepless]

Let's not forget also that in the age of cheap flights, events are also competing with continental alternatives. There's going be quite a bit SE contingent in Bordeaux rather than the JK this year.

And if you are really keen to avoid the HOC Regional Event in May you can come to the Vilnius 3 Days instead......

As indeed I am..!! It better be good!