Ashamed to be British

[awk]

It is wrong to suggest that working with schools does not result in more members - but it is right that we need families to be involved. There are some very good examples of clubs which have had big junior numbers because of their school links - anyone ever wondered why NOC has so many juniors?

There are effectively two different types of schools development - that done by RDOs, and that done by an enthusiastic orienteering adult closely associated with the school. Almost all the successful schools, i.e. those where children have gone on to orienteer into adulthood with clubs and perhaps taken families along with them, have in my experience been via the latter, and NOC are no different. Unless it has dramatically changed in the past couple of years, RDO work has resulted more in longer term awareness development and damage control (making sure that schools orienteering doesn't actually put children off), an important role even if perhaps not the most immediately rewarding.

Having worked in and around schools development for a long time, and now teaching in one, I would certainly advocate the family focused route as being easily the most cost effective for clubs looking for development, leaving the longer term awareness to be driven by the NGB, especially if they are able to obtain outside funding to support it.

[HOCOLITE]

Today at O Club a quite frail blonde little girl who has a reputation for bursting into tears at the slightest little thing, stayed behind specifically ro ask 'Why is it called orienteering what does it mean' We explained the origins and also the orientating the map, and then debated how you'd explain the sport to those that don't know. She was very adamant that it was an outdoor adventure sport. She is only about 9 and if she completes her white course it will be her outdoor adventure.

[rocky]

1% of the population of Malvern having participated in orienteering in the last year and if the whole country proportianally had the same membership we would have 180,000 orienteers in Bitain.

Is that more than just the Hartmann family then Steler?

[ER]

Hocolite's post (2 above) says it all. Sporting success at any level of achievement will have its foundation in a committed coach, inspirational teacher or caring parent. That 9 year old will have succeeded if she did her white course and who knows that might be the start of a long journey towards an eventual gold medal.

[SeanC]

Mrs H wrote:

"All I'm really saying here is just because someone is paid to do a job - in this case sports development - does not mean they are going to do a better job than a volunteerr.
Infact if you let the volunteer run with their own idea you will probably get something extra. Let's call it Passion! "

Fair point Mrs H. I can see the danger in paid officials imposing rigid development plans to hit performance targets. But it doesn't have to be like this. This is a question of leadership. If MADO type schemes were to be implemented across the country wouldn't some kind of national co-ordination be required? Co-ordination doesn't have to be rigid top down management, but inspirational leadership by person(s) who let the volunteers run with their ideas, encourage them when the spirits were sagging and help to spread good ideas across clubs. Mrs H, I wonder if you can think of anyone who might be suitable? However such a job might be a big task, perhaps even full time. For this we might have to pay someone, not loads, but enough so that they can devote the necessary time and energy.

My argument about paying for development/publicity work is a philosophical one based on a couple of assumptions I have no real evidence for except my own gut feeling!

- Many clubs will struggle to find volunteers to do the amount of development/publicity work that Mrs. H and MADO have done.
- Orienteering costs for waged orienteers as a proportion of salary are less than 20 years ago.
- We have to try harder to get new orienteers into our clubs than 20 years ago, because 20 years ago there was nothing to do on a sunday except watch Songs of Praise, eat Arctic Roll or go orienteering.

I guess the cash could just as easily be spent on advertisements or some kind of secretarial support to help the volunteers?

It must be the easiest argument to raise entry fees or membership fees for this sort of work? Maybe then we will have a new generation of medal winners, or more than 2 competitors on each junior course at Westerham (by the way late entries are still being accepted, please contact the organiser )

Are the newspaper adverts really that effective? How big should they be and how much do you have to pay? Has anyone got a MADO example to attach to this thread?

[Jon Brooke]

Not familiar with Mrs H's club but it sounds impressive.

2 questions though:

How would an extra layer of "coordination" at a higher level help her do better than she's already doing?

How would this extra coordinating layer discover/encourage more people to do the same sort of thing as her?

I suspect that actually it would be a bit of a waste of time. Far better for others who have genuine commitment and available time to form their own network, exchange ideas and get on with it.

[HOCOLITE]

Sean the problem with SDO's or probably any other paid position, where the recruitment is done for an untried and tested job, by volunteer officials, you don't necessarily get the person with the passion, you might get the person who's good at getting the grants, you might get the person who's good with the kids, you might get the good organiser, of course we want the lot from lower paid part time employees. Some areas might be lucky. Our SDO is not an orienteer so hardly had the knowledge to go forward in the way perhaps grass roots in the region envisaged. Other SDO's have other qualities, I see there reports due to a committee post I have, and the work,inspiration etc is varied.

[SeanC]

Jon Brooke wrote

"How would an extra layer of "coordination" at a higher level help her do better than she's already doing? "

In Mrs. H's case, probably none, but there is only one Mrs. H.

"How would this extra coordinating layer discover/encourage more people to do the same sort of thing as her?

I suspect that actually it would be a bit of a waste of time. Far better for others who have genuine commitment and available time to form their own network, exchange ideas and get on with it."

But wouldnt a co-ordinating person help set up such a network and maintain momentum? I can't defend the concept any further I'm afraid, it's all down to gut feeling (raises white flag). So how do we replicate the successful initiatives such as the MADO project across the whole country? If a network of volunteer publicity/development officers implementing MADO style projects with minimal paid support from the centre is the best way forward, then this would be great and I promise not to call it an ad hoc initiative.

I would still like to defend the concept of paying for development/publicity. Orienteering seems to be the most labour intensive sport ever invented. Organising two small events last year almost finished me off and I dont feel I have much energy for significant volunteering in the short term, but soon my club will need an organiser/planner for another event..... The problem is that we have to organise events, make maps for our sport to survive in the short term. In the long term our sport needs more MADO type initiatives, more coaching etc. My feeling is that many or even most clubs dont have the volunteers to do such intensive development work AND map, plan, organise and do all the other essential day to day activities.

Maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way round. If its better to have volunteer orienteers doing the development/publicity work rather than RDO's, maybe we should be more prepared to pay people to make maps, or even to plan/organise etc? This way the volunteers get freed up to do what's necessary for the long term survival of our sport.

[Gross]

maybe we should be more prepared to pay people to make maps

That's an interesting concept. Wonder if it'll work.

[graeme]

Maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way round. If its better to have volunteer orienteers doing the development/publicity work rather than RDO's, maybe we should be more prepared to pay people to make maps, or even to plan/organise etc? This way the volunteers get freed up to do what's necessary for the long term survival of our sport.

You are looking at it the wrong way. Volunteers will do what they want to do (by definition!) - and will often do it well, but we can't centrally plan for what this will be. It therefore follows that professional support should be for "what we can't find a volunteer to do". There is no task, from digging toilets to chairing BOF, which we should pay a professional to do if it can be done equally well by an amateur.

Graeme

[SeanC]

Graeme wrote
"Volunteers will do what they want to do (by definition!) - and will often do it well, but we can't centrally plan for what this will be."

I'm not suggesting that BOF should tell the clubs what volunteers should or shouldn't do (there would be mutiny!). I'm just raising a possible approach in defense of an argument I made. Its too simplistic to say that volunteers will do what they want to do. Sure volunteers wont do what they DONT want to do, but volunteers are often willing to do several different things - my club has a committee that leads the volunteers and helps direct the volunteer help into those areas that are needed. Our chairman is an excellent leader and quite hard to turn down when you get the phone call asking for help!

Graeme wrote
" It therefore follows that professional support should be for "what we can't find a volunteer to do". There is no task, from digging toilets to chairing BOF, which we should pay a professional to do if it can be done equally well by an amateur. "

I agree, but what if there aren't enough volunteers to do all the tasks?

DIDSCO's original post asks:

"If sport is so important to us, and if sports is something we are so passionate about, why can't we set in place a decent structure from bottom to top to achieve world class success. "

Apply this to orienteering and what do we need? I cant say I have all the answers but based on what I've read on nopesport in the past year this might include:

- frequent low key local events
- high quality maps and high quality regional events
- coaching for newcomers
- high quality coaching for advanced beginners and the elite
- more opportunities for families and individuals to socialise after events
- funding for the elite so they can devote the necessary time for training
- more publicity/development (perhaps in the MADO style?) to bring in new families and individuals (and compete with the many new activies that are on offer to people today compared with 20 years ago).

Looking at the membership statistics that John Morris persuaded me to analyse last year, this clearly isnt happening throughout the country. Only a very few clubs have stable or increasing membership. Because I'm not a particularly imaginative person, I'm suggesting that one solution might be to spend money employing more people to do some of the things on this list since I believe there is a shortage of volunteers to run our labour intensive sport - if we assume that publicity/development work is essential. In a more pro-sport country like Australia perhaps the government would provide this money, but since we're in Britain we might have to pay ourselves, and I'm suggesting that most orienteers could afford it.

[Mrs H.]

- more publicity/development (perhaps in the MADO style?) .

I have sent Rocky two samples of my publicity material to put on the thread - because I'm too stupid to manage it myself.

The first shows the initial (introductory) approach last autumn.

The second launched the follow on (retention) mini-league - slightly broadening the appeal - (not just the adolescent athlete - but his midddle-aged mum too ) (yes the dates are wrong - comes from not having a calnder - can't seem to lay my hands on the final version)

But I think Rocky is too busy out sledging at the moment to put them up

[rocky]

coming shortly mrs h!

edit: they were some sort of *special* jpeg file that my pc doesn't like... something to do with them coming from a mac? i thought we all lived in a compatible world now but seemingly not!

sorry!

[guest]

An overview of what HOC did and achieved in their MADO intiative has been written this week (before this thread took the turn it did!)with the help of Mrs H and will appear on the BOF web site ( next week)under Development > Good Practice along with examples of the publicity material which were used so that others can read about it.

There are other examples / ideas up there (POW, SELOC etc) - this has been mentioned in Focus and mailings to clubs. Hopefully other clubs will use these ideas to suit their areas.

[brooner]

mado thing attached