On-line entries

[stodge]

Good idea Godders, If the entry screen emailed you with a reference number for the payment, and the entry software had a field to mark the "envelope no / reference number" as paid, it would not involve too much admin......
Could be used in conjunction with with the paypal option, so that people could make the choice: card or transfer.
The choice of increased cost of whether to pay by card then goes to the punter and the club entries people get a reduced workload too....

[FatBoy]

Yes like the internet banking option.

For the record I'd like to add something to Stodge's description of the bank's view. Banks are very sceptical of internet security, for which I don't blame them because if there was a problem then we'd soon be at their door. For this reason any "sale" made over the internet cannot be drawn directly into a normal bank account, it must go into a thing called an Intenet Trading Account, which requires a large bond to be paid etc etc. This is way beyond the means of most companies/clubs so they use a third party (mostly banks ironically) who have one of these accounts, but make their money through charging a percentage on top of the credit/debit card fee, plus there's normally a delay in getting the money so the third party gets interest. I'll add this extra line just in case anybody is not sure: It is illegal to put internet sales through a PDQ machine. I know lots of people do it, but illegal it is.

[CHS]

Fatboy, I don't know what a PDQ machine is. Could anyone clarify?

[FatBoy]

PDQ literally means "Process Data Quickly" which tells you nothing hence is a crap name (made up by bankers). It's a handheld bank card reader that small business tend to have for taking card payments.

[Adventure Racer]

Can I just check, Fatboy. There isn't any issue with paying entries by bank transfer as Godders suggests is there? You're just talking about taking card payments? In which case I'd certainly be perfectly happy to pay that way. Does take a few days to go through though, as the thieving banks make their percentage by holding onto the money for a few days between it leaving your account and going into the payees.

Just as a side note - paying for foreign events by bank transfer. When I looked into paying for something by Euro transfer, my bank wanted to charge a hefty fee. Is there some cheaper way of doing this that I've missed?

[FatBoy]

No problems with transfer by internet banking - this is just the same as writing a standing order that goes just once - a wrapper around normal bank transfers if you like. The distinction in the bank's eyes is one you're just transferring money - the other is because it's going through a credit card there's all the guarantees that go with that and because it's across the internet it's more likely to be stolen cards (apparently) so the chances of having to refund are higher etc.

Yes there's a ridiculous 2 day delay unless it's the same bank (they can't get away with saying it's in the BACS system then!), however most online payment providers will hold it for at least a week and commonly 4 weeks - so the 2 day delay is actually a plus. The minus is you've no idea it's coming until it arrives, and you can guarantee that references will go missing/get mangled as they go through the various computer systems.

Sending money abroad - if anybody knows a better way of doing it I'd love to know - the number of times I've paid the bank £20 to do something which should be routine.

[graeme]

Sending money abroad - if anybody knows a better way of doing it I'd love to know - the number of times I've paid the bank £20 to do something which should be routine.

Depending on how big the event is and whether anyone local knows you, saying "I will pay you an extra ten pounds in cash on the day once I've done my foreign exchange" tends to work. Organisers know what a rip-off banks are, that's why they pass the charge to you. Its that "cashing in on honesty" someone mentioned, and the extra tenner is for the extra effort your request generates.

Graeme

[Rookie]

entries should be the same price regardless of method, but if that means them going up a little so be it.

I prefer entering online, and paying an extra 50p (or whatever it would be), is cheaper than envelopes and stamps (the two SAEs which really aren't needed, BOF should change the SEF)

Just force everyone to use a debit card if it's cheaper - I always do since I'd rather spend my money than borrow it all the time.

Any yes, why do banks charge for sending money abroad, using foreign cash machines, pos transactions (free with credit cards - what's the difference?) etc. There is no human effort so what exactly is it paying for, they just all need to agree not to charge each other so they don't have to pass the fee onto their customers.

[brooner]

Any yes, why do banks charge for sending money abroad, using foreign cash machines, pos transactions (free with credit cards - what's the difference?) etc. There is no human effort so what exactly is it paying for, they just all need to agree not to charge each other so they don't have to pass the fee onto their customers.

hmm... i wonder how banks make profits...

[Lil' God'rs]

... so what exactly is it paying for...

my wages

[Rookie]

i was saying that the banks charge you for doing this since the owner of the foreign cash machine, credit/debit swipe thing charge your bank who then charge you to cover it (admittedly probably with a little more). If they all agreed to stop charging each other (like [most] British banks don't charge users from other British banks) then the customer wouln't have to pay.

it's just they call it a handling fee when they don't actually do any work - yes it is pure profit but they make enough of that from just hanging on to your money

Lil' Godd'rs - you don't actually get paid for that though - only needs a computer.

[Puregenius]

ahhhh, the familiar naivety of an engineer on a business issue.

[Rookie]

1/4 of my year is business - i think my argument is pretty logical anyway

just don't like people charging for work that requires zero effort

[lincolnsteve]

just don't like people charging for work that requires zero effort

Yeah but someone had to design the software the process uses and the bank had to pay big money for that software so the profit goes against the costs.

[Rookie]

they'd probably recover it within a week

anyway, this forum is meant to be orienteering not evil economics

back to the "should we enter online" debate .... yes