On-line entries

[roadrunner]

I've just finished handling the entries for a road race (1400 runners, so similar to a big badge event), in which all entry was by post, and I have to say that online entry would have saved a lot of problems, especially with people paying the wrong amount, cheques bouncing and so on. In road running it's common to pay £1-£2 extra for online entry, but as it avoids you having to send an SAE to get your number, plus you know you got in, many people happily do so.

I've tried the various orienteering online systems, I agree with FatBoy that the "ntrees" one was more tedious in terms of registration than the others.

One point I think is important is that, if online entry costs more, you should know this before you go through all the form-filling. Some race entry sites, and several e-commerce ones, are terrible for adding things on right at the end.

[Tatty]

For the Classic we knew the cost beforehand, but as a club felt it inappropriate to charge extra for on line entries. Perhaps we should have done this. However it might have made for a higher postal entry which would have made the Entries Secretary unhappy!
Equally it is easier to alllocate start times for those entering on line. Where do we go from here?

[Man of Kent]

BOF

[Becks]

It's maybe in the pipeline! A functional new database for all this stuff is being sourced, but as John has said a million times - if you have expertise in this area, get involved! To buy in a database is expensive and probably not as functional - offer your help if you want to get things done!

[Kitch]

felt it inappropriate to charge extra for on line entries. Perhaps we should have done this. However it might have made for a higher postal entry which would have made the Entries Secretary unhappy!

Then is the answer to put an even higher premium on postal entries ?
Look at it this way.
You pay someone to provide an online system to save you manual work.
But the person doing that manual work is expected to do it for the pure pleasure.

I am not a web programmer so no I can't build you a system - I might be able to help in the design/definition of a system.
I would suggest that BOF could commission a bespoke system from someone like Pyrat. This system could then be provided to BOF member clubs as one of the BOF services .
BOF pays once for a system that benefits all the membership, who pay for BOF.

As for BOF membership .... they have this thing called Direct Debit

[RJ]

I would suggest that BOF could commission a bespoke system from someone like Pyrat. This system could then be provided to BOF member clubs as one of the BOF services.

When membership, event registration, entries, levy payment and results are all linked into the same database then we can expect an improvement on the very "bitty" system that currently prevails.

Paying your membership by DD is only part of the answer. You know you are going to spend £100 (approx. for eg.) for the year's entries to the majors. Paying this up front at the beginning of the year would help all round. Just a thought!

[djc]

Thx for the initial compliment on the Chasing Sprint system. Still evolving from one year to the next (the apostrophe in O'Donovan caught me out yet again this year!). The Nochex payment system used weighs in at 20p + 2.9% i.e. about 50p for an individual entry decreasing with more competitors per entry. The primary reason for using this though is because there are no setup costs which suits JOK given we only have the one event per year. Costs are absorbed by the entry fee (and offset by less work for the entries secretary).

Conscious decision to also allow online entry and payment by cheque. Some folks still aren't happy with paying online and for others (e.g. Uni clubs) a cheque is the only option.

Dave

PS If you haven't entered already - only one week to go before the prices go up! Enter here

[Mrs H.]

You know you are going to spend £100 (approx. for eg.) for the year's entries to the majors. Paying this up front at the beginning of the year would help all round. Just a thought!

Help all round! With a family of 5 very active orienteers how exactly would shelling out £500 straight after Christmas help me? Don't kill the goose that's laying the golden eggs.

[HOCOLITE]

Cor Just think how much interest bof would make (or saving on interest payment) if this happened. I can't see many people playing this game, some people religiously go to a badge event each weekend, and some are pensioners as well

[NeilC]

You know you are going to spend £100 (approx. for eg.) for the year's entries to the majors. Paying this up front at the beginning of the year would help all round. Just a thought!

Sort of here already, our (SO) online entry system uses paypal as a payment option so you can just divert ebay revenue directly to event payment.

[SeanC]

Becks wrote
"It's maybe in the pipeline! A functional new database for all this stuff is being sourced, but as John has said a million times - if you have expertise in this area, get involved! "


John Morris wrote
"It sounds a good idea.

Instead of just bleating on nopesport, why don't you suggest this to Mike Hamilton (mike@britishorienteering.org.uk) or, because Mike is V.Busy at present, to one of the Councillors?"


Becks and John, apologies if I'm taking you a little out of context, but I dont see the harm in posting/bleating on Nopesport without contacting BOF directly. Isn't it the case that by posting on nopesport people are involved? Even a provocative comment stimulates debate that could end up creating requirements for this great new system (and building a consensus that it's necessary)? Didn't the BOF communications report suggest forums as a way of improving communications with BOF (and isn't this the defacto BOF forum anyway)? I can see that grumpy posts about BOF from those who aren't volunteering to help are irritating though.

Plus nopesport is a harmless lunchtime diversion.

Looking at these posts there are three payment mechanisms for major events proposed:

1) Pay as you go: you only get what you pay for but online payment is expensive as the payment provider get a fee per transaction.
2) Yearly lump sum payment (equivalent to a contract with your mobile phone provider or local gym), the orienteer gets a pass for a year for major events: Could reduce online payment fees (?) and simplify administration (?) and be a revenue earner, but would end up costing orienteers more and requires orienteers to have a healthy bank balance. Plus you loose out if you get injured.
3) Orienteering accounts (equivalent to payment mechanism for a gas bill). The orienteer pays lump sums (perhaps by direct debit or random online transactions). Money is transferred from the orienteers account to the event account if there is money available. The money belongs to the orienteer and is entitiled to it back, but presumably BOF can pocket some of the interest. Presumably this will cut down on the transaction fee. Neil, is this basically the proposed SO system? Do you think this would work on a countrywide level?

[Roger]

Now if entries were done (or even just paid for) by the team manager in each club...... one cheque, brought to the event on the day. Entries could still be made over the internet by the individual, but the competitor's club would be responsible for collecting the fees.

Back in the dark ages (well, 1997) I took entries for an OUOC badge event where on-line entry was possible. In line with expectations, about 10% of the competitors entered on-line. Payment was on-the-day only. Everyone paid up: the two who couldn't make it on the day apologised and sent cheques, which arrived before I'd had time to draw breath and remind them of the promise to 'name and shame' non-payers.

This avoids the payment surcharge, but with on-line entrants now running at 60-85% could create a headache on the day. It's also worth noting that back then, on-line entrants had to visit enquries anyway to collect their control cards.

The point is that with a fundamentally honest customer base, some of the 'normal' rules of e-commerce may not necessarily apply. We may be able to exploit this to reduce our costs: lack of trust has a price.

[HOCOLITE]

Roger
I can say that generally the trust element is still there but the non payers tend to be not as forthcoming and have to be chased. This is from JK entry experience. There are always people who email in desperation for late entries and course changes etc and most pay up but it means someone has to be at enquiries just to handle that and then after the money has to be reconciled and then the 'non payers' chased. There are also those who enter as students who are not........... it has become necessary to ask for proof of student status with entry.

[rocky]

There are also those who enter as students who are not........... it has become necessary to ask for proof of student status with entry.

does that actually happen?

i only ask because when i was doing the euoc race entries and entering 20+ people for most races it was quite a lot of hassle to get copies of everyone matric cards.

[HOCOLITE]

It was more essential for senior students and those not being entered by a Uni, but there were a dozen or so where we had to ask for proof. Obviously with online entry you can't get it directly so have to email and ask for copy of card.