how others see us

[Adventure Racer]

It took me ages to find the event message board on the EPOC website & find that artical but it was a damn sight easier to find the nopesport link on the EPOC home page. Lets hope she has not found herself here already eh?

Something I pointed out ages ago, but some people didn't pay attention, or didn't think I was serious.

[Oldman]

What really matters is that that person's point of view when expressed to other people is not left unchallenged. This is where proactive PR works. Explain and promote what WE are about long before we have to defend a position!

Yet again RJ hits the nail on the head!! I really wish some of the (frankly) arrogant people who posted on this thread could come to realise what RJ is talking about!

Yes, we definitely need positive PR for orienteering, if only to counteract our own internal worst enemies, who spout the kind of dismissive nonsense we've seen exemplified here!

[guest]

Oldman, have you not noticed the irony of trying to persuade some of us that we need to be more positive, thoughtful and understanding by describing us as

our own internal worst enemies, who spout the kind of dismissive nonsense we've seen exemplified here!

Sure you're not overreacting just a bit?

[/b]

[Guest88]

Re: the previous post from "guest" about when he met a member of the public crossing a fence...

http://www.ramblers.org.uk/info/britain ... ecode.html

tells us:

Use gates and stiles wherever possible - climbing over walls, hedges and fences can damage them and increase the risk of farm animals escaping.

I.E. my point is that a person knowledgeable on the countryside code but not on orienteering is probably a reasonable person and would think that he is being reasonable in trying to advise other members of the public to follow the countryside code.

Maybe the best policy is just to say "sorry, it's a race - we have special permission", in a polite and not at all dismissive fashion and run on (assuming that you are allowed to cross the fences or walls on this particular area). There simply isn't anything to gain by alienating reasonable members of the public.

[guest]

Thanks so much. I didn't realise we had a UN peace negotiator on here to hand out advice. It all seems so obvious now. How foolish of me to to try the line

I didn't do any damage

Obviously that was completely unreasonable and would probably have caused even a nun or budhist monk to lose their rag.

If only I'd said

sorry, it's a race - we have special permission

I'm sure the fellow would have given me a cheery wave and wished me good luck.

[guest]

Forgot to add, he obviously wasn't a reasonable member of the public. How come you're all so certain that if only I'd handled things differently he would have gone off thinking that orienteers are wonderful? I'm telling you (and I was actually there) that he wouldn't, he was obvioulsyn just looking to have a go, though I'm sure some of you know better (or think you do).

[Oldman]

Forgot to add, he obviously wasn't a reasonable member of the public.

I rest my case!

[Guest88]

The point about saying "Sorry, it's a race - we have a special permission" is

1- You are accepting that you understand his position and that his position would normally be reasonable (to pick you up on crossing a fence, which is a transgression of the countryside code).

2- You are informing him of the fact of which he was not aware, that there is special permission for a race today, which allows the crossing of fences (implied).

What you said can sound confrontational as you are implying that he was unreasonable to pick you up on crossing the fence given that you hadn't done any damage.

[bedders]

Is violating the country code actually against the law?

[Guest88]

no, but it may affect "how others see us"

[guest]

Anything can sound confrontational, for example: "There's a gate down there" can be said quite aggresively.

By the same token "I didn't do any damage" can sound like someone trying to assuage somneone's concerns.

Oldman, I used the word "reasonable" in direct response to what guest88 said 2 posts before mine - do keep up.

Sorry, no more posts tonight. I'm going to have to go to bed now as it's late and my wife says we are all behaving pathetically.

[Guest88]

Well we look forward to you further assuaging our concerns upon this topic tomorrow.

[Adventure Racer]

By the same token "I didn't do any damage" can sound like someone trying to assuage somneone's concerns.

It can also sound like the defensive ploy of a guilty party.

[guest]

AR, your overanalysis of my motives is just barmy. I expect there is a law about how people get sucked into doing it on Wikipedia somewhere.

Why would I be feeling guilty? I was runnning the obvious straight line route between a couple of controls and climbed perfectly legally over a fence. A guy walking a dog, to my mind, had a go at me. I gave him a fairly, to my mind, neutral response and he started shouting. Admittedly I failed to try and win him around to the cause. In hindsight maybe I might have come up with something better to say, but I certainly was not offensive. He was.

I really don't see why you and some other people have so much trouble accepting my version of the facts, especially as you don't have anyone elses version to go on.

[Adventure Racer]

I really don't see why you and some other people have so much trouble accepting my version of the facts, especially as you don't have anyone elses version to go on.

Maybe because there's always two sides to every story, and just because only one side of it is being put here doesn't mean it's right. Whoever you are, Mr Anonymous, maybe you should try looking at the situation from a different perspective from your own. The perspective of the dog walker for instance might be a useful one to look at, if you can escape for a moment from analysing your own motives.

Just taking that point of view for a moment - he sees somebody climbing over the fence when there's a perfectly good gate not very far away. Being aware of the Countryside Code - or at least having some inkling of it - he thinks this is wrong, and tells you off for doing so. In response he gets "I didn't do any damage". Whilst this might sound like a valid excuse to you, to him it sounds like you don't think the Countryside Code actually matters as long as you get away with it. I'm not actually surprised he got a bit angry at you. Not having a go at you and suggesting you should have had the spare brainpower to think up something better to say at the time - though in retrospect "Sorry, it's a race - we have a special permission" would have actually explained things a lot better.