Why shorter courses as we get older?

[Adventure Racer]

Well AR what do you say to that

It might suggest that the M35 winner didn't have actually have a particularly good run, and was somewhat surprised to win!

[graeme]

Interesting to note on the question of 'running up' it's never really happened in Scotland with the strong M21 all moving up through the age classes together & staying together for the competition & competitivness (Look at M45... Dean, Tullie, Coombs, Barret, Petrie etc)

FYI Overall results from Scotltish O-league 2005, M21L

1 Marcus Pinker FVO (M21)
2 Graeme Ackland INT (M40)
3 Patrick Walder CLYDE (M35)
4 Murray Strain EUOC (M21)
5 Fraser Purves FVO (M35)

And n W21L
1. Hazel Dean FVO (W40)
2 Anne Straube EUOC (W21)
3 Kirsten Strain EUOC (W20)
4 Sarah Dunn MAROC (W35)
5 Stella Lewsley BL (I wouldn't dare...)

On a full length classic race that makes the M35 out for around 110 minutes assuming the extra time doesn't create tireness & mistakes.... I'm no scientist but from experience there will be a big physical / physiological difference / requirement between the winner and the M35.

Supposing you are right (and I think you are) I wonder why the squad runs a 90minute selection race for international classics which typically take them 110. are they getting it wrong too?

The BOF "speed ratio" stats over many races suggest that M35s move about 7% slower than M21s, and M40s about 11%. Personally, that 11% is just about right.

Graeme

[HOCOLITE]

I think you've hit the nail on the head Graeme, although I disagree with your conclusion. We have had all these age classes to cope with the numbers at bigger events, so why do we need them now? Perhaps more to the point, why do we need so many regional events? The classes in question at the race in question - M35L and M21L had a total of 21 people on them. Hardly any justification for 2 courses, or 2 classes, or to have to make a decision whether you try to compete for the "open" trophy or the correct one for your age. People running up instantly devaules winning the age class trophy, but I don't blame those who do it - it just begs the question why do we have seperate age classes?


Aside from the very largest events I would like to see a range of courses on offer, which tend to be consistent from race to race in length, winning times etc - we could maybe colour code them to make it easy to remember which course you do We'd need blacks and perhaps a short green at the bigger ones though.

Isn't this similar to the idea trialled last year or the year before to cut down courses. I think the idea was good but the principal of losing ranking points and competitiveness within the age group put the dampers on it.

I for one don't often run green at colour coded- partially laziness, but usually as my limited competitivesness would rather see me do well on light green(and get reasonable points if W Mids League) than be beneath the line on the green. I know some results now give a W colour and a M colour but the results are all amalgamated. Surely the answer is run the same courses but split the results up, by age. Not difficult with all this technology

[FatBoy]

Unfortunately it's putting a age class (for which rankings will apply) against each of those courses which caused it to fail. If the experiment had just been "here's your ten courses now choose" then it may have had a better chance of succeeding.

Somewhere else I've proposed creating a single ranking list for all classes and (as you say using technology) being able to show the top M50 etc. The top M50 maybe 267th overall. You get the idea. Then it doesn't matter which course you run as long as there are ranked people on them to get the mean/standard devation etc for the ranking system to calculate the points.

[guest]

The BOF "speed ratio" stats over many races suggest that M35s move about 7% slower than M21s, and M40s about 11%. Personally, that 11% is just about right.

There is published research somewhere, carried out by Dr. Steve Bird, which shows that orienteering pace through the terrain starts to decline between the ages of 30 and 35. This decline is around 1.0% to 1.5% per year, so agrees with Graeme's figures above.

Interestingly this is much higher than the decline in road running speed, which I think is around 0.7% per year.

[mharky]

HÃ¥kan Eriksson was 43 when he won SILVER in the WOC 2003 SPRINT distance...

[guest]

AR, what you really seem to be asking is 'why can't events be set up so that they play to my strengths?' which isn't completely unreasonable, but is unrealistic.

The answer, if you think you have an endurance advantage, is to do some long-Os. There's one in the New Forest on March 5th and one on Dartmoor around September time.

In the meantime, forget about pot-hunting and just run the courses you like, which I guess is M21L by the sound of things. If your logic of improving endurance with age is right, then you will do as well there as anywhere.

[NickC]

In France, the age classes are 21-39, 40-49, 50-59 etc. This means that we get about 40-50 on the A,B and C courses at the regional events and about 200+ at the 3 National events. However, I guess that combining M50 and M55 in the UK these days would cause problems with numbers.

[NickC]

In France, the age classes are 21-39, 40-49, 50-59 etc. This means that we get about 40-50 on the A,B and C courses at the regional events and about 200+ at the 3 National events. However, I guess that combining M50 and M55 in the UK these days would cause problems with numbers.

[RJ]

What about M/W 21, 35, 43, 56 and 65 as age classes? A reasonable spread of ages in each group. Even the advantage of 43 when your eyesight starts going. 56, is it memory fading then..... can't remember.

[Adventure Racer]

AR, what you really seem to be asking is 'why can't events be set up so that they play to my strengths?'

Since my suggestion should in theory mean that M35s will no longer feel the need to run up, then I imagine it would actually make me less competitive when I do run in class

Whilst I am keen on doing Long-O, my record so far isn't very good , and in fact my better results have generally been when I've run for less than an hour rather than more

[FatBoy]

What about M/W 21, 35, 43, 56 and 65 as age classes?

Sounds familiar....

[guest]

I have been doing this sport for about 4 years and I have enjoyed running W21S for about 2 of them. My only gripe about the class divisions is that I am not able/don't want to run the W21L course but feel that the W21S is sometimes too short (i.e. I was out for only 43 mins the other week).

I'm sure this has been suggested previously but why can't we divide the classes into simple course lengths and have ranking points apportioned accordingly. Therefore M35/M40s who are still very fit can run course 1, be competitive and get ranking points. Personally that would be great for me as W21S is usually course 5 at regional events and W21L course 3, but my ideal length would be course 4. However I do like being competitive and so I'm limited to just 2 classes.

I suppose you may get some people that run severely short courses in order to win, but I'm sure they would be in the minority and most people would like to run the class in which they feel they are competitive in regardless of age.